Pockets queens set!

[Ray_bob]

sorry first orbit no reads
i really think i could've gotten more any thoughts???

50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16422158) - Fri Oct 07 22:33:58 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table(479505) Table 55 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: raystay (1930)
Seat 2: Mwhelz01 (5100)
Seat 3: pokerrat (620)
Seat 4: FerdyPooh (1205)
Seat 5: roxy1952 (1155)
Seat 6: swiggidy (610)
Seat 7: rmee5 (730)
Seat 8: DubbleNotSpy (2895)
Seat 9: Halbert16 (5805)
Seat 10: Giant_Robot (540)
raystay posts small blind (25)
Mwhelz01 posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to raystay [ Qh, Qd ]
pokerrat folds.
FerdyPooh folds.
roxy1952 folds.
swiggidy folds.
rmee5 folds.
DubbleNotSpy calls (50)
Halbert16 calls (50)
Giant_Robot folds.
raystay raises (175) to 200
Mwhelz01 folds.
DubbleNotSpy calls (150)
Halbert16 calls (150)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5h, Qs, 4d ]
raystay checks.
DubbleNotSpy checks.
Halbert16 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ]
raystay checks.
DubbleNotSpy bets (250)
Halbert16 folds.
raystay raises (800) to 800
DubbleNotSpy folds.

I'm missing the point of this post. Looks to me like DoubleNotSpy has 67 for the straight... you should fold.

[Ray_bob]

no he folded. i had the set of queens and just slowplayed. im asking you experts out there if there was a better way to play it. such as open out betting. or just smoothcalling the turn.

No way! That is completely wrong, if he called that raise with 67 pf, then so be it, but most of the time, villian is making a bet to take down the pot. I probably would have raises slightly less to try to get more money out of him, but otherwise not too bad. I can see trying to get rid of the draw if he had ace 6 or something like that. I probably would have led out on the turn though, you got no action on the flop, so a turn bet of 100-200 might get action from someone who thinks you are trying to steal a pot. But he bet, so a check raise isn't too bad. Would just be a shame to have the river be a 6 and he had A7 and got free cards to beat you.

I understand checking the flop since you've hit it so well. I don't like the turn check as you are giving out a free card to a flush draw and a gut shot straight draw.

You checked the flop and showed weakness. Now that everybody checked the flop you should bet out at the turn. Many players will think that you are now trying to pick up the pot and may play back at you. Plus you don't want to give out a free card to the draws I said earlier. When you check/raise the turn most players will realize you were trapping and get away.

[ QUOTE ]
No way! That is completely wrong, if he called that raise with 67 pf, then so be it,

[/ QUOTE ]

I was being sarcastic since there was no question on the post and I didn't know why the hand was posted.

[Matador225]

Don't smooth call the turn. Too many cards that could give you a scare on the river. I would not have made it 800 to go though, maybe 600 is a bit more reasonabale and stands a better chance of getting a call. I don't know if you could have extracted any more though.

[nath]

If you want to get more, don't check the flop and check-raise the turn. That's a dead giveaway for a slowplayed monster.
If your opponents are decently aggressive, lead out with a continuation bet on the flop. If not, maybe you can check through but you ought to lead the turn. Your line may give you a nice "ha ha, I tricked you feeling" but it's not the best way to get the most money in the pot.

If you lead out on flop, you won't get action unless they are holding 44-JJ. Really you don't make anymore money by leading out with a continuation bet on flop than checkraising the turn. With a rainbow flop, i don't mind a checking on flop at all. Unless I KNEW he held something like TT, I may bet, bet, bet, or check, bet, bet. I don't mind the check on the turn either. With the board showing 5-4-Q-8, I think your check will be followed by a bet by one of your opponents maybe 4/5 of the time since your hand could've easily missed this board. If I were one of your opponents, I'd find it almost irresistable to not bet if I was checked to twice, regardless of my holding.

Reasonable hands Dubble could be betting on turn are 55, 44, 88, AQ, KQ, QJ, A8, JJ down to 66 excluding sets, flush draw + gutshot draw, flush draw, any two cards (bluff). The action on flop suggests that neither of your opponents have any hands containing the case Q or any of the hands that would've made a pair on the flop. I think he bets 66+ on flop. Hands that didn't bet the flop are 55, 44, A8, flush draw + gutshot (like A6 spades), flush draw, and any two cards. Of these, the only hands you may not want to raise are A8 and any two cards.

Since you have no reads, you won't make much more money if he's bluffing (unless he's a known big bluffer), you won't make any more money against the flush draw unless he makes that flush and you fill or pairs up, and you/he bets for value. Only hand you probably don't want to raise to 800 is A8, but he may call your raise with A8 anyways thinking you're bluffing (not likely given you'll have invested 2/3 of your chips into this pot). I think your raise to 800 was correct. A raise to 800 gives him 1700/500 or about 3.5 to 1 pot odds. When he's on a flush draw or flush draw + gutshot he'll be a about a 5 to 1 dog to catch one of his 7 outs (2 of the remaining 9 spades give you a boat) or about 4 to 1 dog to catch one of his 10 outs. Lastly, if he's holding 55 or 44 and slowplayed the flop, you'll double up if you raise on the turn. But if you smoothcall and a spade, 6, or 7 comes, the action could get killed.

Additionally, if you think he might be too scared to bet 66+ on flop, there's a decent chance he'll call your checkraise on turn with something like 66 or TT. If the board showed 5-4-Q-8, would you call a checkraise to 800?

Basically, you would raise any draw and raise any made hand. I'd say your raise here was the optimal play. And, a raise to something like 900 or 1000 is arguably better.

-mike