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#31
10-10-2005, 01:12 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] we walk by faith, not by sight [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, excellent post, NotReady. [/ QUOTE ] When reading the forums, I usually just dismiss empty quotes such as this without giving them much thought, and just read the posts containing substance. They pull an obscure quote from someone's post and mock it without ever addressing what the person actually said. I always just figured it is someone trying to be funny with a witty one-liner remark. However, the consistency of such remarks make me wonder if people are afraid to reply due to inadequate answers, or they really aren't comprehending what they're reading. [/ QUOTE ] I have addressed NotReady's posts on many occasions. I felt his quote above summarized my thoughts on his beliefs quite succinctly, however. 
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#32
10-10-2005, 01:29 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
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Yet, when we speak of God not revealing these same answers or indeed Himself, we call him (or for the atheists, the non existent thing we believers call God) more or less a Son of B. (Often this type of talk is even used to show the futility of believing in a God.) That is what I find ironic. Wonder why that is? [/ QUOTE ] Seeking challenges and exploring the mysteries of the universe is a wonderful thing. Theists, by definition, have made up their mind about the existence of God. When they come across something they don't understand or would like to be different (evolution, big bang, lack of absolute morals, basically any personal incredulity or uncomfortableness), they put it in their little God pigeonhole and are satisfied with explanation. They also tend to believe they are justified in holding such closed minded, anti inquisitive beliefs. Gawd did it, it's all OK! Problem solved. You can stop thinking and questioning and feeling uncomfortable, you have an answer! When an atheist makes a comment about God's lack of revelation, they are simply pointing out that such closed minded and brutish beliefs are not supported by evidence and not inspired by an inquisitive spirit. Notready's brain lesion with regard to the basis for secular morality, and Bluffthis's strange, illogical belief that "God has made us and loves us and is making sure his TRUE word is communicated to at least ONE religion" are examples of beliefs not inspired by an inquisitive mind but rather come from somewhere else.
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#33
10-10-2005, 02:16 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
<font color="red">I base that on His word, not from reading your mind. If you're right, you have nothing to worry about. But God's word says you're wrong. </font>
How are you so sure that this is God's word and not the word of others? How do you manage such an enormous faith in what others purport is/was God's word? If someone tells you the tree in their backyard has spoken, why would you be any less likely to believe them, than these people from such a distant time, whom you never met, and know nothing about? It seems to me that the bulk of your faith must lie in these people. Even more so, than in God.
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#34
10-10-2005, 02:23 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
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Notready's brain lesion with regard to the basis for secular morality, [/ QUOTE ] I've never denied the existence of relative, secular morality. I've repeated ad nauseum that atheists often outperform Christians in the morality of their lives. What I deny ( along with many philosophers ) is that absolute morality can be justified if God doesn't exist. I've quoted Nietszche, Russell, Marx, Michael Martin and Dostoevsky. The response I keep getting from all you open-minded atheists is that I'm irrational, I have no basis for making the statement, I have a brain lesion. Why don't you people ever address the issue instead of resorting to personal insults and straw man arguments? The question is real simple. Nothing is hidden, nothing is tricky. Ok, you sitting down? You ready? Here's the question. Why shouldn't someone commit murder if he wants to and can get away with it? Did you get that? Do you understand the question? Do you want me to repeat it? Ok, good, you got it. Now do what no philosopher, theologian or moralist has yet managed. Go ahead. Do it. Show me. Put your money where your mouth is. Criminy.
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#35
10-10-2005, 02:37 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
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Why shouldn't someone commit murder if he wants to and can get away with it? [/ QUOTE ] There is no answer. There are no absolutes. The individual does not survive the body. If some madman blows us all up tomorrow, that's the end of it. and it's all "ok". or not "ok". you choose.
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#36
10-10-2005, 02:44 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
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If someone tells you the tree in their backyard has spoken [/ QUOTE ] The Bible is not a tree. [ QUOTE ] than these people from such a distant time, whom you never met, and know nothing about? [/ QUOTE ] We know a lot about them. The Bible is the most amazing document of ancient history. Its historical and archeological accuracies are superb. Skeptics have been converted simply from making an honest effort to prove it's invalidity. Search the net. There's tons of information pro and con. If you just want to be flip or have no serious interest in the subject I can't help you. But the Bible stands out in a way no other religious claims does for many reasons. Most people who say "It's just a book like any other book", or "It's just as reasonable to believe in the spaghetti monster as the Bible" usually have done no investigation of their own.
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#37
10-10-2005, 02:47 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
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There is no answer. There are no absolutes. The individual does not survive the body. If some madman blows us all up tomorrow, that's the end of it. [/ QUOTE ] You just want to use these as your axioms, starting points, presuppositions, fine. Please don't tell me you are making a logical argument or that you have in any way shown my arguments unsound by making these assertions.
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#38
10-10-2005, 02:47 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
I’m aware that science can’t prove any of this. Should that discount everything though?
No, you should not. Is it just because perception is reality? It's all about needs. Am I the type of person who needs to believe in something bigger than himself to deal with past issues? Why didn't you become a born-again research scientist? The answer to this one is obvious. Is God a crutch for me to deal with my problems that are just around for the moment? Is it just my addictive personality? I'm happier for you that you aren't a down and out drug addict. We all have and need crutches, life is hard.
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#39
10-10-2005, 02:51 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
I'm not trying to be flip. I would love to have more of an understanding about the bible. I haven't delved much further because:
Do you (am I) supposed to take the old testament literally? i.e. do you (should I), believe in talking snakes, men living to be 900 years old, etc? If so, I don't think I can get past that. I'm not sure anyone should.
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#40
10-10-2005, 03:00 PM
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Re: How I Became a Christian (LONG)
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Please don't tell me you are making a logical argument or that you have in any way shown my arguments unsound by making these assertions. [/ QUOTE ] Your arguments *are* assertions.
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