Navy Seals vs Army Rangers vs other special forces vs UFC

[ScottyP431]

Slickpoppa,

Eye gouging was an example, but yes, there is a significant amount of training required to learn how to quickly deliver lethal blows while not dying yourself. Even UFC'ers who are associated with ex-seal training programs (i think it's Hess or someting like that, does commercials for SCARS) admit they cant use 90 percent of what they learn in UFC combat due to the stringent rules. I don't think special forces "waste" any time training, but I know they spend much more on it than you apparently think. Do 1 minute of research and comeback when you have some idea what you are talking about.

[BCPVP]

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UFC guys might not stand as good of a chance if killing your opponent is involved/allowd. For example, seals are not trained to get their targets to "tap out", but they are trained to kill in unarmed combat.

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They train the SEALs to use weapons almost the whole time. UFC guys train to use unarmed combat all the time. The UFC guys will be much better at applying what they trained in because it's all they train in. It'd be like asking who'll be a better marksman, a SEAL or some random UFC guy. You train how you fight and fight how you train.

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The idea that special forces get a cliffs notes version of UFC techniques is... musguided at best

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What I've heard from those who've taken military unarmed combat is that while it's good for PT and developing a comabative sense of mind, it is not all that useful. Why? Because these guys probably will never fight unarmed.

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In UFC there are a lack of eye gouges, through attacks etc.

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So? UFC guys are just as capable of gouging an eye.

[ScottyP431]

Kdawg,

Royce is a good point by you. But to say that he is representative of the average UFC fighter is more than generous, he is like the Michael Jordan of UFC, no one else has ever come close.

On a sidenote, has anyone else seen the video of him fighting a Kung Fu master where his brother is narrating? Pretty awesome stuff.

Special forces and suchlike be trained to kill people quickly, not maim and suchilke. I would bet a hoard of dubloons from ole Hispaniola on them, matey!

They all be a-quakin' when faced with pirates tho, I be bound. Arr!

[BCPVP]

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Royce is a good point by you. But to say that he is representative of the average UFC fighter is more than generous, he is like the Michael Jordan of UFC, no one else has ever come close.

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Don't ride Royce's nuts too much. He's great at what he does, but he's not the greatest. The men he fought when he was in his prime knew almost nothing about jiu-jitsu. Now everyone in MMA does. Look up someone named Sakuraba. He's beaten many of the Gracies.

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On a sidenote, has anyone else seen the video of him fighting a Kung Fu master where his brother is narrating? Pretty awesome stuff.

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That guy in the video, I believe, is Jason DeLucia. Royce fought him in one of the early UFC's and beat him. If you don't train to fight while on the ground, you're all but a done when fighting a top-notch groundfighter.

[Brom]

I'd like to add to the argument that SEALS, Rangers, etc. are trained to kill, while UFCers are only trained to tap someone into submission.

I think that UFCers could kill someone almost as easily, it's just that they know not to go that far. Think of how unlikely it is that a SEAL would even know how to get out of a simple submission move such as an arm-bar. Only this time the UFC will pull full force and not stop, and probably break that arm off in a matter of seconds. Now think of how he could apply any number of "dirty" and effective moves he knows, yet doesn't apply in the octagon. My vote goes to the UFC guys in any type of unarmed match.

[KDawgCometh]

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Kdawg,

Royce is a good point by you. But to say that he is representative of the average UFC fighter is more than generous, he is like the Michael Jordan of UFC, no one else has ever come close.

On a sidenote, has anyone else seen the video of him fighting a Kung Fu master where his brother is narrating? Pretty awesome stuff.

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Well, I knew that Royce was an exception when I named him, but I think that most top MMA fighters that are pretty well versed in the ground arts would also be compareable. Someone like Fedor has such nasty short distance strength in his punches that I have no doubt that he would kill someone with them. There are other fighters like Francisco Bueno that are also deadly with their fighting skills. I wouldn't say that someone like Shannon Ritch would be able to fight to the death against a SEAL successfully, but a top MMA fighter will normally take a spec op in a hand to hand match

[KDawgCometh]

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I'd like to add to the argument that SEALS, Rangers, etc. are trained to kill, while UFCers are only trained to tap someone into submission.



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well, considering that eery submission hold is designed to main and/or kill, this statement is false

[Brom]

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I'd like to add to the argument that SEALS, Rangers, etc. are trained to kill, while UFCers are only trained to tap someone into submission.



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well, considering that eery submission hold is designed to main and/or kill, this statement is false

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Hey I'm agreeing with you. It just seemed to me that a few posters were taking this stance, and I wanted to object to that. Sorry if I didn't word it in a manner that indicated so, but it is what I meant.

[ScottyP431]

Brom,

We seem to be arguing in circles here, let me try and clarify. I have 2 basic points

1. I think UFC rules structurally advantage a certain style of fighting, i.e. the arm bar style UFC pit/groundfighting discussed here, that would be much less effective with no rules. They work primarily becuase the quickest, most lethal attacks (eyes, groin, throat, back of the head by the RAC) are prohibited, allowing them to set up the move. Even though they can set it up in a manner of seconds, I don't think they could do it fast enough vs. unrestrained retaliation.

2. I think you all are (A.) Underestimating the amount of unarmed combat training seals recieve, (B.) Overestimating the amount required to be effective. UFC fighters train for a particular style of fighting, seals train for another. As an analogy (admittedly an imperfect one), you take the most badass K1 kickboxer in history and put them in a UFC match where now holds/grapling is involved, and they dont fair well. Put someone who has been training in submission moves against someone trained to kill in a death match and I think you'd see something similar.