Anyone raises the donkbet here?

NDHand · #1 06-26-2005, 07:33 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Lately these donk bets have been meaning an improvement to 2-pairs or better so I wasnt sure about a turn raise here... or did I miss a standard raise?

Dave G. · #2 06-26-2005, 07:37 AM

I raise it.

Nick C · #3 06-26-2005, 08:47 AM

In this particular case, it's pretty unlikely, I think, that MP1 simply caught a king on the turn. What did he call the flop with, KJ? I suppose it's possible, and I'd imagine it's more likely at 0.5/1 than at the games I'm used to lately.

He could've just caught a flush draw to go with his pair if he has Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something, but I doubt that's what's going on.

Calling down seems sensible to me. If you suspect your opponent has a weak ace and you want to raise, I'd do it on the river, when you're less likely to get 3-bet. (If I thought my opponent was betting a draw he wouldn't fire again with on the river, then I'd want to raise the turn, but that seems unlikely to me here.)

Anyway, I think just calling down is the best plan, in this case.

@bsolute_luck · #4 06-26-2005, 08:48 AM

i might wait 'til the river simply because of the flush draw, but i'd definitely find a raise on either street.

Dave G. · #5 06-26-2005, 08:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i might wait 'til the river simply because of the flush draw, but i'd definitely find a raise on either street.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make a lot of sense. If he's on a flush draw, we should raise now and take his money before he misses. He might still pay us off if he likes his pair of K or A, but he's much less likely to pay us off when the flush draw misses.

Also, if button picked up a flush draw, he's going to call our raise, which just adds to our value.

Raising the turn extracts value out of drawing hands that we can miss if we wait until the river.

@bsolute_luck · #6 06-26-2005, 09:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i might wait 'til the river simply because of the flush draw, but i'd definitely find a raise on either street.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make a lot of sense. If he's on a flush draw, we should raise now and take his money before he misses. He might still pay us off if he likes his pair of K or A, but he's much less likely to pay us off when the flush draw misses.

Also, if button picked up a flush draw, he's going to call our raise, which just adds to our value.

Raising the turn extracts value out of drawing hands that we can miss if we wait until the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

fine raise him on the turn. personally i don't get what his bet is really for, you have position, and since no reads were mentioned:

1. if he has a true donk and decided to bet his Ace now, it's the same either way you play it.
2. if he has a rag 2-pair / slowplayed trips, you lose the same
3. if he is aggressive, he may take a shot on the river again anyways.

i really don't see it as a big win/loss discussion.

SCfuji · #7 06-26-2005, 09:09 AM

call the turn raise the river.

hicherbie · #8 06-26-2005, 10:22 AM

calling down seems fine. if youve seen donkishness and you want to raise id pop him on the river.