some questions

[J.R.]

24/15/2.2 (somewhat snug and decently aggressive player, plays OK but appears "bookish" postflop- nothing freaky) opens utg, I 3-bet AKo from CO, blinds drop.

I haven't gotten out of line and my stats are taggy. headsup for 10.5 bets.

flop: QJ5 rainbow. check-bet

turn: 7[QJ5] rainbow. check- ... How much does it matter either way?




assuming I check the turn:

what's my river plan?

If you fold to a bet unimproved, how wide would the initial raiser's standards have to be before you consider calling a river bet unimproved?

Do you raise a rivered A or K if he leads? Folding to a 3-bet if you raise?

Do you bet if he checks? If not, against what kind of opponent (rough stats or other comments) would you consider value betting here? This is a slightly more compelling bet had the opener been in the CO and you the button, does it change much if he opened two off the button instead of utg?



assuming I bet the turn

I check behind unimproved if he calls. If he check-raises the turn I check-fold unimproved, calling a rivered A or K and raising a T. Comments, especially the rivered A or K line?


answer whatever interests u, I ask too much, thanks

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
24/15/2.2 (somewhat snug and decently aggressive player, plays OK but appears "bookish" postflop- nothing freaky) opens utg, I 3-bet AKo from CO, blinds drop.

I haven't gotten out of line and my stats are taggy. headsup for 10.5 bets.

flop: QJ5 rainbow. check-bet

turn: 7[QJ5] rainbow. check- ... How much does it matter either way?<font color="green"> I check everytime. I think it matters. </font>




assuming I check the turn:

what's my river plan?<font color="green"> I call a bet </font>

If you fold to a bet unimproved, how wide would the initial raiser's standards have to be before you consider calling a river bet unimproved?

Do you raise a rivered A or K if he leads? Folding to a 3-bet if you raise?<font color="green"> I raise both a good %. </font>

Do you bet if he checks? <font color="green"> not usually </font> If not, against what kind of opponent (rough stats or other comments) would you consider value betting here? This is a slightly more compelling bet had the opener been in the CO and you the button, does it change much if he opened two off the button instead of utg? <font color="green"> I won't value bet ace high in this spot </font>



assuming I bet the turn

I check behind unimproved if he calls. If he check-raises the turn I check-fold unimproved, calling a rivered A or K and raising a T. Comments, especially the rivered A or K line?<font color="green"> Calling a turn check raise is the reason you check the turn. It sucks. I like the river play. </font>


answer whatever interests u, I ask too much, thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Krishan

[___1___]

[ QUOTE ]
turn: 7[QJ5] rainbow. check- ... How much does it matter either way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok...opponents preflop range probably includes AKs-ATs(&amp;o), JJ-77 (ruling out AA-QQ, per no PF cap), KQs-KTs, QJs, QTs, JTs, KQo, KJ.

I am ahead of KT,JT,AT at this point. He is folding on the flop with a lower PP most likely, and I don't think he's folding QJ,QT, or any K obviously.

Just a guess, but I think my equity is a somewhere in the 33-37% (no pokerstove at work [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) range and I don't see opponent folding 2nd pair enough to bet this turn. I think it's fairly close on the turn, but I check b/c:

1) Opponent is not likely to fold 2nd pair
2) My equity is probably in the 35% range, and
3) In my experience, opponent will not bluff at you on the river when he misses with AK, KT, or JT.

Basically, I think a bet is slightly -EV against this opponent.

[ QUOTE ]
assuming I check the turn: what's my river plan?


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you fold to a bet unimproved, how wide would the initial raiser's standards have to be before you consider calling a river bet unimproved?


[/ QUOTE ]

I fold to a river bet unimproved probably 85% of the time here. Against a considerably looser opponent I bet the turn much more often.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you raise a rivered A or K if he leads? Folding to a 3-bet if you raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably 50/50 between calling and raising, and I would always fold to a 3bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you bet if he checks? If not, against what kind of opponent (rough stats or other comments) would you consider value betting here? This is a slightly more compelling bet had the opener been in the CO and you the button, does it change much if he opened two off the button instead of utg?


[/ QUOTE ]


I don't bet if he checks. I'm almost never value-betting here. I think it changes a lot if he opened in the CO.

[ QUOTE ]
assuming I bet the turn

I check behind unimproved if he calls. If he check-raises the turn I check-fold unimproved, calling a rivered A or K and raising a T. Comments, especially the rivered A or K line?

[/ QUOTE ]

This mirrors my line.


___1___

[BottlesOf]

I don't think betting and folding to a turn c/r getting 9:1 is something that we should never do in this case. Our outs be tainted.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think betting and folding to a turn c/r getting 9:1 is something that we should never do in this case. Our outs be tainted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your right.

Krishan

[BottlesOf]

Actually, I'm not. I missed the gutshot. Glad I contributed nothing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But I think this is a very interesting post, and I'm going to think about it some more.

[kiddo]

I really dont see which hands he will checkcall flop, maybe a lower pair or JTs?

If he is "bookish" postflop he will checkraise turn with 2pair or set, not 1 pair, so I think u safely can fold a turncheckraise.

I would check turn if he was more aggressive, capable of checkraising this turn with a small pair and often bluffing river if we check turn. But not against a bookish guy, if bookish means that he is a bit predictable.

If I didnt bet turn I am not sure I would raise river if he bets. I often do, but what can he put u on that isnt helped by A or K hitting river? If he is bookish I guess he is thinking?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I'm not. I missed the gutshot. Glad I contributed nothing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But I think this is a very interesting post, and I'm going to think about it some more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misread your post. Stop using double negatives.

Krishan

[Scotch78]

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Stop using double negatives

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Learnig poker from Peter_Rus=+EV. Learning English from him=-EV. JBB didn't use any double negatives [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Scott

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stop using double negatives

[/ QUOTE ]

Learnig poker from Peter_Rus=+EV. Learning English from him=-EV. JBB didn't use any double negatives [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think betting and folding to a turn c/r getting 9:1 is something that we should never do in this case.

Isn't there a double negative in here?

Krishan