3-betting 66 after a crowd

[J.R.]

passive 10-20 6max-played about 40 hands here, nothing super atypical otherwise

50/5 (plays half his hand, very passive) limps utg, 16/8 (very tight, fairly passive) overlimps, 43/18 (likes to take control and play hands) raises,

I am dealt 66 on the button and....


SB is 23/8 (tight/passive), BB is 35/5 (averagish/passive).

anyway, I have been thinking about 3-betting medium pairs in more than just LP open-raise spots v. an aggro raiser....anyone have any thoughts experiences ideas here?


The big problem is I am not comfortable assessing the chance I can knock the blinds/limpers out, anybody have any ideas or expereinces or statistical guidelines they rely on, or is it just simply open-limpers don't fold for 2 more so coldcall and invite the blinds along?

I routinely 3-betting pairs headup, and I don't think I need to get dead money in the pot that often to really boost my earn here, assuming I can stay in line postflop when things don't go according to the plan, as I will get paid off when a crowd comes along and I catch a set.

[stigmata]

I'm not following the logic here - surely this is classic cold call scenario. Encourage the blinds along, play for set value. I just think that playing for set value is so damn easy and profitable, it seems wrong to change it.

If you raise, the best thing that's going to happen is it's going to be 3-handed against the 50/5 and the 43/18. Your up against 4 overcards and neither player will let go of their hand if they connect with the flop. The LAG may well represent/semi-bluff, and almost every flop will be somewhat scary. And that's the best case scenario. In fact the 16/8 is so tight that he probably has a good hand and is coming along too.

I think the loose guys are allways going to call 2 more after limping, the tight guys can fold maybe half the time?

[sthief09]

I do think a 16/8 will probably fold a lot of hands there, and the ones he doesn't fold will often be pairs smaller than 66. the blinds are tight enough that you can rely on them to move out of the way a good amount of the time. this particular scenario seems very favorable. maybe something like 40% of the time you end up 3-way with lots of dead money and one likely bad hand, 40% you end up 4 ways, and the rest 5 ways. you always have position, and unless he caps you (which he might since you say he likes to take over hands), you have initiative.

under normal circumstances though, maybe with loose blinds or two loose limpers, I don't think I like it. I wouldn't be surprised if hot and cold your hand is in bad shape, even against looser players and a loose raiser.

I would guess that 66 would be profitable to 3-bet under optimal conditions, 77 under average conditions, and 88 under just about all conditions. for whatever reason, I think of 88 as a pure value hand and 77 as more of a set hand with good pair value.

in the situation you described, I would raise 77 without hesitation. I think 66 is borderline raise/call.

[helpmeout]

66 is too weak to raise here if it was 88 then 3bet but with 66 it is more likely that if you get a 3 way pot then UTG will snag a pair with his Q8s type of hand and beat you.

You really want a hand that is going to beat UTGs potential bottom pair if it doesnt you are pretty much a dog 3way because both players will beat you if they pair (assuming LAG doesnt have a bigger PP).

Just call and hope the blinds come with you and you hit your 6 on the flop.