River

J.R. · #1 11-04-2004, 07:14 AM

I currently rely on pokertracker export stats so I listed the relevant ones (I have limited hands of opponents so a lot of data isn't reliable).

Hand 1

Opponent VPIP 19.5, PFR 14, AFF 3.1, AFT 2.7 AFR 2.7, not enough data for BB defense stats

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: J.R. is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, J.R. raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. bets, BB raises, J.R. calls.

River: (7 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. ?

Hand 2

PFR a bit tighter than normal, @7%

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: J.R. is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, J.R. calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. bets, Button calls.

River: (4.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R.? 

Flop as well.

Hand 3

Opponent postflop aggresison .85, PFR %5

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: J.R. is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, J.R. completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
J.R. bets, BB folds, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
J.R. bets, MP folds, CO calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. bets, CO raises, J.R. ?

Preflop/flop as well.

Hand 4

Opponent loose defender, postflop aggression 1.8, PFR %8

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: J.R. is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, J.R. raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R. bets, BB calls.

River: (5 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
J.R.?

Hand 5

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: J.R. is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button raises, 1 fold, J.R. calls, MP bets $11.5 (All-In), Button calls, J.R. calls.

Flop: (7.30 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
J.R. bets, Button calls.

Turn: (4.65 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
J.R. bets, Button calls.

River: (6.65 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
J.R.,

Does the button's relative aggressiveness (i.e. aggro/not or a pokertraker river number) effect* the river decision, because I am not sure it does? If so, how?

* is affect what I want here? I get mad lost on usage of effect/affect.

Nate tha' Great · #2 11-04-2004, 08:29 AM

1. Check-call. He'll bet that card for you and I'd be at least slightly unhappy about folding to a raise if I bet.

2. I'd value-bet. There's no reason to think that you're behind and there's no reason to think that a player like this will bet the river if you check.

3. I expect to see a worse two pair often enough to 3-bet.

4. Against a loose passive I think you make more money by betting.

5. This seems like a trivially easy value bet. You're less likely than usual to induce a bet from a weaker hand with a player all-in.

Scotch78 · #3 11-04-2004, 09:10 AM

I second everything Nate said except for the "trivially easy" part.

Scott

theBruiser500 · #4 11-04-2004, 09:25 AM

hand 2 - on the flop i think you can lead out some of the time and check some of the time. on the river i like a value bet.

hand 4 - i don't see where the value comes from betting, maybe he'll call with a worse jack or a pocket pair but he could also be waiting to raise you with an ace and i think he could just have high cards or some gutshot draw which he'll bluff if you check it to him. seems like a check/call to me.

hand 5 - looks like you should just lead out and value bet, not sure why you wouldn't.

imitation · #5 11-04-2004, 09:41 AM

Hand 1: Check/call is my preference.

Hand 2: I think 3 betting this preflop over calling makes the hand easier to play. After you call preflop I think betting out would give a better read of where you were in the hand. After the flop is checked through (were you going for a CR?) I would bet the turn and the river. Betting the river I think that given the flop check through and then turn bet you will be called by A-high enough for it to be profitable and if you're raised I think you can throw it away. I don't believe checking is superior because I don't think many/any hands will bluff here often given the rest of the hand. Really tricky hand and without looking at others advice i'm quite stumped as to the best play.

Hand 3: Everything standard, I think 3betting is correct.

Hand 4: I bet it, too many hands you beat will check it through.

Hand 5: I'd bet again.

Guido · #6 11-04-2004, 03:29 PM

I agree with Nate on every hand. I would raise hand 3 preflop...

Guido

J.R. · #7 11-04-2004, 07:51 PM

Hand 1: I checked, he checked. MHIG. I wasn't sure what to make of the turn raise, as the paired card and flop 2 flush seemed a likely bluff/semi-bluff. I intended on calling down, then improved and debated leading/check-raising but would hate a raise or 3-bet, so I checked.

Hand 2: I whiffed the flop check-raise. The river question is kinda dumb in retrospect as the lack of a flop bet makes me think there isn't much chance he will bluff the river. I have been spewing chips after 3-betting small pairs from the blinds lately, and as this guy was a tighter than normal preflop riaser, I though I would see a flop and proceed. I bet the river and he folded.

Hand 3: I really wanted to 3-bet but the low postflop aggression factor scared me. He had AQ. I feel uncomfortable raisng from the sb with 2 limpers, I think I would like AJs (maybe ATs), TT, KQs, AQo (maybe AJo) to raise here.

Hand 4: I bet and he had Ax. The guy was fairly aggressive and there is a missed flush draw, so I thought about inducing a bluff and avoiding a river raise (in blind battles weird stuff happens), but then again it was a headsup blind battle so I could more reasonably see him calling down with worse than an A or QJ. Had I open raised and been called by the button I think I like check-call a bit more, but once again the value bet / induce a bluff debate seems more academic because my opponents seem to be playing fairly passively postflop, especially on the river. I feel guilty for just pounding, it feels like ABC auto-pilot and not giving due consideration to other options, but the more I think about checking, the less I think inducing a bluff is a viable option with a decent hand like top or often second pair.

Hand 5: This is stupid too, but was meant to kinda work with hand 4 in that I feel I just pound and don't think enough about inducing bluffs. I posted this kinda late and somehow missed the presence of the all-in guy, I for some misguided reason was under the impression this was headsup, in which case a river check becomes a more plausible option, generally speaking. BOO me for having a day job and feeling tired at 4:15AM. Plus the fact that an aggro guy would have popped the turn with a flush or A or even a semibluff, and a passive won't bet here, so bet is obvious in without the all-in, IMO. I did, he mucked, I beat the all-in.

Thanks to all for taking the time to comment.