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#11
12-07-2005, 09:33 PM
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Re: What am I doing with these aces??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't know how I feel about the flop check - it seems like this is one of those situations where you know you're going to call a bet anyway, so why not bet out? A lot of hands you're beating will call you here. If you bet, UTG raises, and then someone else calls/re-raises, you can be pretty confident you're behind too. [/ QUOTE ] The more likely scenario: I bet, villain raises, someone coldcalls... Now where am I? Am I really going to check-fold the turn because of the coldcall? [/ QUOTE ] I think I bet this flop as well. MP doesn't bother me too much, as he posted, called a raise, then called a reraise. It looks like he got swept along for the ride. If button calls he's got a K or a straight draw. I think a Q may want to raise here the flop with so much action already going on, and if it gets too nutty you can find a way out on the turn. 
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#12
12-07-2005, 09:48 PM
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Re: What am I doing with these aces??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't know how I feel about the flop check - it seems like this is one of those situations where you know you're going to call a bet anyway, so why not bet out? A lot of hands you're beating will call you here. If you bet, UTG raises, and then someone else calls/re-raises, you can be pretty confident you're behind too. [/ QUOTE ] The more likely scenario: I bet, villain raises, someone coldcalls... Now where am I? Am I really going to check-fold the turn because of the coldcall? [/ QUOTE ] I just don't see how you're aleady giving credit for someone to have a Queen. Even if the action goes like that, I still don't think it's that bad a situation, as you can just continue to bet. The cold-caller will often have a King here as well. If you are really afraid of the Queen after the cold-call, you can always just go in to check-call mode, knowing that either UTG or MP will bet.
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#13
12-07-2005, 10:03 PM
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Re: What am I doing with these aces??
[ QUOTE ]
The more likely scenario: I bet, villain raises, someone coldcalls... Now where am I? Am I really going to check-fold the turn because of the coldcall? [/ QUOTE ] Aaron, this is a microlimit game we're talking about here, right? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] IMO you need to bet the flop here, for a few reasons: 1) Value. Bet-raise-cold-call isn't necessarily a bad thing against 'typical' microlimit players. 2) Despite the paired board, it's far from drawless and you still probably need to protect your hand. 3) Checking behind on the flop reeks of slowplayed queens, which will only slow down your opponents. This kind of sucks whether they have trips or not, since we either don't get a sign that we're behind or we miss out on value. I don't mind the psedo-wa/wb thing once it becomes HU, but I think the best way to get there is a flop lead.
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#14
12-07-2005, 10:05 PM
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Re: What am I doing with these aces??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't know how I feel about the flop check - it seems like this is one of those situations where you know you're going to call a bet anyway, so why not bet out? A lot of hands you're beating will call you here. If you bet, UTG raises, and then someone else calls/re-raises, you can be pretty confident you're behind too. [/ QUOTE ] The more likely scenario: I bet, villain raises, someone coldcalls... Now where am I? Am I really going to check-fold the turn because of the coldcall? [/ QUOTE ] I just don't see how you're aleady giving credit for someone to have a Queen. Even if the action goes like that, I still don't think it's that bad a situation, as you can just continue to bet. The cold-caller will often have a King here as well. If you are really afraid of the Queen after the cold-call, you can always just go in to check-call mode, knowing that either UTG or MP will bet. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not giving anyone credit for a queen yet. I'm suggesting that betting the flop and calling a raise doesn't help much in the information department if there is a queen out any more than checking and calling). So the argument is whether bet-calling the flop is more profitable on average (knowing that if there is a coldcaller, I might be giving up my hand on the turn somewhat regularly) or if check-calling the flop to see what unfolds is better. I've been doing some thinking about playing OOP against aggro villains and trying to find ways to exploit their aggro-ness. I think the line I took has a little to do with this. I like the idea of having position when aggro villain is going to be betting often. I like sitting back and seeing how everyone else responds before committing extra chips to the pot. I really think the more interesting question is what I should have done after both villains folded. I nearly check-raised the flop. I nearly check-raised the turn. But I froze up and played passively (expecting to collect one bet from villain on each street). If I had a second shot at this hand, I think I'm check-raising the turn.
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#15
12-07-2005, 10:27 PM
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Re: What am I doing with these aces??
I dont mind this line although I would lead the flop and call a raise and perhaps look at raising the turn. This turn card isnt great and with our straight outs probably couldnt fold to a 3bet.
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