Trouble with middle pairs

deception5 · #1 04-20-2005, 07:55 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Should I raise here? I'm having trouble in this situation because with 2 limpers and the blinds I'm assuming 5-way or more and that I want to try for my set here.

If I do raise and an overcard comes or a scary board would the typical line be to bet/call a raise and check/fold the turn unimproved?

Thanks,
D5

yellowjack · #2 04-20-2005, 08:05 AM

It's really close.
88 is a clear call, TT is a clear raise.
Only way to play is badly is by folding [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Dunno · #3 04-20-2005, 08:06 AM

Well this depends but first of all u have to raise. Rasie is good because if its a ragged board and some one bets into you, u will raise him and isolate him and maybe some other for this big pot. Then u have a good chanse to win.

Sins we assume everyone calls preflop this isnt bad for ur hand sins u also like big pots if u get ur set. If ur not and maybe one overcard comes up and u got a bet in front of u, Rasie to isolate him. He could have u drawing drawing slim or u could have him drawing on some stupid hand, many ppl like to just bet here w just big cards.

if its 2 overcard i think ur beat and u could probly safely trow the nice 99 away. But dont forget to raise preflop!!!! your hand is to good not to raise!

Malachii · #4 04-20-2005, 08:07 AM

I personally limp with nines and try to flop a set or an overpair... tens are my cutoff. If you raise, you're going to play the hand more aggressively since you're coming in from a position of strength... if you play well after the flop and have a good read on your opponents, raising is fine.

[ QUOTE ]

If I do raise and an overcard comes or a scary board would the typical line be to bet/call a raise and check/fold the turn unimproved?

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This question is horribly generalized. What constitutes a scary board? Who's doing the raising? How big is the pot?
Could your opponent be raising for a free card on a draw? I think my basic line would be a stop and go if I got raised on the flop, but it's very read/situation dependant.

Dunno · #5 04-20-2005, 08:14 AM

i draw my line a litle lower then u do. i agree that it could be close but if u play ur pocketpairs right postflop i think the raise is alot better. My line would be 88 there i would think twice by raising but i would probly do it anyway. 77 i say call sins its only a set hand to make the winner.

k000k · #6 04-20-2005, 08:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Should I raise here? I'm having trouble in this situation because with 2 limpers and the blinds I'm assuming 5-way or more and that I want to try for my set here.

If I do raise and an overcard comes or a scary board would the typical line be to bet/call a raise and check/fold the turn unimproved?

Thanks,
D5

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I raise that 100% of the time. You scare people behind you out, buying you position, and the people that are in front of you will play very cautious, you can get a real good feel for their strength. When that overcard falls, (and it probably will), they'll think it hit YOU! They might not like their kicker, and if you have position on em, you can take a free showdown or whatever when they likely check to you.. If they start betting into you or raising on the big streets, THEN be afraid. Examples of why I raise 99:

This 1st one is slightly maniacal but these guys were LAG's:

Crypto 2/4 - Hero in LP with 99:
Preflop:
UTG limps, UTG+1 raises, EP folds, MP coldcalls, Hero 3bets, 5 folds, UTG/UTG+2 call.

Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.
Hero wins 7bb.

--------------------
This 2nd one is standard operating procedure, table full of fish:

Crypto £1/2 - Hero is UTG with 99

Preflop:
Hero raises, 4 folds, MP calls, 4 folds.

Flop: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, MP calls

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets, MP calls

River: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets, MP folds.

Hero wins 5.5bb

Aggression rules the field..

k000k · #7 04-20-2005, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i draw my line a litle lower then u do. i agree that it could be close but if u play ur pocketpairs right postflop i think the raise is alot better. My line would be 88 there i would think twice by raising but i would probly do it anyway. 77 i say call sins its only a set hand to make the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

88 doesnt stand alone a whole lot more than 77. For me, 88 is only a raise if you're 1st in MP or later. I'd limp 88 and call 1 if it gets raised behind me under any other conditions, and fold it to a PF raise before me. Completing or calling 1 from the BB is fine too, but I think you'll get into a lot of trouble raising 88 too much. If you're raising 88 more than 20% of the time it's probably too much.

car ramrod · #8 04-20-2005, 09:10 AM

yes I would raise pf

Dunno · #9 04-20-2005, 09:12 AM

well i meant i hes spot. the pot is 5-way so if he would have 88 i would raise to make a bigger pot. Its true that 88 isnt alot better then 77 but hey u have to draw the line somewhere. This rise is for value and all those callers make a good pot. Lets say the board raggs comming like 5 5 10 rainbow 2 check and a bet in front of u. U raise and then u might get headsup. This way will win u money. Of course the board may come A Q 9 all clubs, well it was worth the shoot.

GL // Dunno

k000k · #10 04-20-2005, 09:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
well i meant i hes spot. the pot is 5-way so if he would have 88 i would raise to make a bigger pot.

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How do you know the pot will be 5-way if you raise? LP will have to coldcall 2, and the BB might have trash he'd never pay to play. Or if you just limp for that matter, you dont know what will happen behind you. If you already have 5 in before you, then I understand your case, and then it's set-or-fold. However, if you're gonna raise 88 there, you might as well raise 22, cuz the only thing 888xx beats that 222xx doesn't is another set of 3-7's.