Should I have smooth called for value?

mex78753 · #1 09-30-2005, 04:16 PM

I understand that cc with j10s is generally a bad play. But since everyone at this table seems to be loose/passive I thought I had great post-flop edge. The fact that I knew guy behind me would also cc was a plus too.

My question is, should I have smooth called on this flop knowing that theres a great chance others will call behind me?
PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (10.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB

kenberman · #2 09-30-2005, 04:19 PM

I raise this flop

mcvalenc · #3 09-30-2005, 04:23 PM

I really don't like the flop coldcall. I'd rather have better position and a stronger hand before considering it. Your hand is strong but vulnerable on the flop, so I'd definitely raise.

MoDOH · #4 09-30-2005, 04:24 PM

There is no other way to play it...

GetThere1Time · #5 09-30-2005, 04:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like the flop coldcall. I'd rather have better position and a stronger hand before considering it. Your hand is strong but vulnerable on the flop, so I'd definitely raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think our hand is really that vulnerable. Either Hero has the PFR drawing to 4 outs or the PFR has an overpair and is never folding or giving a free card. The players behind our Hero are likely drawing to less than 4 outs.

I'd probably just call/call/call unless I improve and give the chance for the looseys behind me a better chance to dump money into the pot with no shot to win.

mcvalenc · #6 09-30-2005, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like the flop coldcall. I'd rather have better position and a stronger hand before considering it. Your hand is strong but vulnerable on the flop, so I'd definitely raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think our hand is really that vulnerable. Either Hero has the PFR drawing to 4 outs or the PFR has an overpair and is never folding or giving a free card. The players behind our Hero are likely drawing to less than 4 outs.

I'd probably just call/call/call unless I improve and give the chance for the looseys behind me a better chance to dump money into the pot with no shot to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I guess his hand isn't as vulnerable as I thought originally considering his flush draw taints a lot of overcard outs, but it isn't a monster either. I think the possibility of getting action from one or both of the players behind us is too good to pass up. We just have too much equity and the pot's a decent size already.

mex78753 · #7 09-30-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like the flop coldcall. I'd rather have better position and a stronger hand before considering it. Your hand is strong but vulnerable on the flop, so I'd definitely raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think our hand is really that vulnerable. Either Hero has the PFR drawing to 4 outs or the PFR has an overpair and is never folding or giving a free card. The players behind our Hero are likely drawing to less than 4 outs.

I'd probably just call/call/call unless I improve and give the chance for the looseys behind me a better chance to dump money into the pot with no shot to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

the above is what I had in mind when I made this post. See the "looseys" will call with 1 overcard or even 2 undercards on this board even drawing to runner runner at times. But I still see a very srong arguement for raising as there is a small possibility one of the bafoons will cc with bottom pair or even ace high.