Ban the Swastika

[ACPlayer]

Should the Swastika be banned in Europe?
Europe proposes Swastike Ban

The swastika represents:
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The case for the ban:
<ul type="square">[*]The Nazis' final assault on the Jews from 1933-1945 [*]Estimated 15m civilians killed by regime [*]6m Jews murdered [*]1942: Gas chambers built at Birkenau concentration camp, mass transports begin [*]Majority who arrive gassed immediately [*]About 900,000 gassed at Birkenau [*]1.1m died at Auschwitz-Birkenau and its sub-camps
1m of them were Jewish[/list]

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What is the swastika The points against the ban
<ul type="square">[*] The Nazi use of the Swastika was a distortion of a symbol dating back 5000 years[*]Freedom of speech [*]Swastika is sacred to about a billion hindus [*]Swastika is a long term cultural icon[/list]
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Of course the ban could never (?!) happen in America (due to freedom of speech), but our European brethren are considering it.

[bholdr]

no. it is speech. no ban.

[Snoogins47]

I could quite easily see a ban like this in happening in the States.

[Cyrus]

This is easy. Or, it should be. One need only examine "The Producers" - what do we do, ban the satire of the swastika? And if we don't ban the satire, where do we draw the line? And what about symbols resembling the damn thing? I could point out half a dozen runic symbols that could be used instead. You see how it goes.

This quickly degenerates into having moral rules dictated by the majority - which is one of democracy's dangers.

But I'm afraid there is a momentum in Europe to ban the swastika, driven by a combination of guilt and misguided politics. In Germany, all symbols, names and references to the Nazis are already banned by law. I find that to be a stupid law, and, what's more, a law that attains the opposite effect of what it aims for. I hope I don't have to explain why.

There was a Crossfire show, years back, when Frank Zappa was on, along with some Washington Times forgettable asshole journalist, and they were debating whether banning certain "obscene words" from rap songs would be a good thing or not. You can guess where Frank stood on the subject - and how convincingly (and hilariously) he made mincemeat of the hapless opposition! Frank's motto for the evening was, "It's just words and you guys want to ban words!"

Now we wanna ban drawings. Either we are out of arguments --which would be a sorry state of affairs if we cannot argue convincingly against Nazism-- or we are getting just plain sillier.

[zaxx19]

It shouldnt be banned. Freedom of expression supersedes people getting upset, even if those people have a very good reason to be upset.

Period.

And Europe stopped being "our brethren" about 12 years ago when they stopped needing us to detangle their genocidal messes and protect them from a Eurasian superpower. I feel like the US will have alot more in common with India and East Asia in the future than with Europe.

[Kaz The Original]

Who should moral rules be decided by if not the majority? The minority? Church? You?

[Kaz The Original]

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And Europe stopped being "our brethren" about 12 years ago when they stopped needing us to detangle their genocidal messes and protect them from a Eurasian superpower. I feel like the US will have alot more in common with India and East Asia in the future than with Europe.

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What is this childish cliche making?

[Cyrus]

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Who should moral rules be decided by if not the majority? The minority? Church? You?

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The rules in every society should be guided by the principle of individual autonomy. In other words, I should be free to do with my body and my soul as I please, if I hurt no one else in the process. And that includes believing in astrology, scientology or the Washington Times. Or smoking cigarettes, getting whipped or piercing my penis. (I'm using in my examples what, by some, are considered extreme behavioral aspects, in order to make a point. Don't start bugging me about Prince Albert.)

The Church, the majority, or me, should have no say in anybody's personal business.

[Toro]

I'm for not banning. A positive thing has occurred as a result of the Prince wearing the Nazi costume, namely creating a controversy which has served to educate the younger people of the horrible events of the past.

[elwoodblues]

I mostly agree. However, I can see why a society in Europe (Germany in particular) would want to make the ban. That one symbol represents SO much pain that they literally want to wash themselves of it. They also want to send a strong message that they won't let their country fall under that trap again.