Live 2/5: QQ with re-raise in front of me

[Tom1975]

Live 2/5 game, lots of bad players. The game's been very passive pre-flop, half the time you get 6 or 7 limpers seeing a flop unraised. I can't remember the last time someone re-rasied preflop. Villian in this hand says he's a new player. He's generally been passive pre-flop, but has shown some aggression after the flop. Hand in question: pretty good TAG opens for $20 in MP, gets one caller, then Villian makes it $70 to go in the CO. I'm on the button and look down to find QQ. Villian has $600 left and I cover. My initial thought was this was most likely AA/KK but could be AK/JJ. What now? I'll share my actions and thoughts later.

[Marlow]

These are tough spots, to be sure. I'm probably folding here. A guy who's normally passive preflop suddenly comes alive and sticks in a huge bet for your game. This makes me nervous. And if he's typically agg after the flop, you're not likely going to be able to control the pot after the flop.

Fold with a heavy sigh.

[maranello11]

Tough spot? Villian has 600 and Hero covers, folding is not an option. You call her and see a flop, see what he does if it comes 10 high. If he checks make a bet, if he bets then proceed using caution. If you flop a set then there is a good chance you are getting alot of his money, but to fold that is the weakest thing I have heard.

[ QUOTE ]
Tough spot? Villian has 600 and Hero covers, folding is not an option. You call her and see a flop, see what he does if it comes 10 high. If he checks make a bet, if he bets then proceed using caution. If you flop a set then there is a good chance you are getting alot of his money, but to fold that is the weakest thing I have heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - I don't think you can narrow CO range to only AA/KK - JJ and AK would also seem like real possibilities. You also have position on everyone here. Call and re-evauluate after the flop action.

[Tom1975]

I called and everyone else folded. Flop was 998r. He led for $125 and I folded. I asked him if he had Aces or Kings and he showed me his Jacks. Oh well.

[JKratzer]

[ QUOTE ]
folding is not an option

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is definitely an option, one that should be considered here. Whether you fold or call depends on how you play the flop. What are you going to do on a 257r flop? Villian almost certainly will bet into you, his hand range either gives him an overpair or AK, either way he makes a continution bet. At that point you can try to get your stack in the middle, by raising right there or or getting it all-in on the turn. In that scenario I think you lose most of the time to a higher pair, because AK won't pay you off and a passive player doesn't reraise big with too many pairs lower than queens.

If you are going to fold on the rag flop when villian bets then realize you're playing for set value and treat this hand like any other small/middle pair. The raise is too big to justify playing for set value I think.

Then there are the flops that contain an A or K. You're basically folding the flop.

So, given all that and read on villian (passive pf, aggro postflop) I think this is a fold. If you were to broaden villian's range beyond what OP said (which is def possible) then an argument could be made for raising.

[ QUOTE ]
If you flop a set then there is a good chance you are getting alot of his money, but to fold that is the weakest thing I have heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling 14bb pf and folding when you don't hit your pocket pair is much weaker than folding pf.

JKratzer

[maranello11]

I didnt say you are playing to hit a set and release if you dont, I said not seeing a flop with QQ on the button is weak with stacks that big. I understand your reasoning about a low flop. I just dont think you can fold QQ here. If it was me I would re-raise preflop and take the hand from there.

[cbloom]

If the only hands he can have are JJ-AA and AK, there's zero reason to play this pot with QQ. Two hands dominate you, you dominate one hand, and one hand is a race, but he has the advantage of knowing if he hit the flop or not. The only way you can play QQ here is if he has a bigger range, like 99 and TT, which doesn't sound like the case.

[MuckerFish]

The problem to me would be that you have 2 people left to act after the action gets to you. The original raiser, and the smooth caller. To me, this makes it a raise or fold situation. I hate a smooth call here. If you smooth call, you'd have to dump it if the original raiser came over the top. If you called and the other 2 come along for the ride, just about any flop without a Q in it could be nauseating. If you feel that villians reraising standards are wide enough (99-AA, AK type of thing), I'd reraise hoping to get rid of AK type of hands from the other 2, and trying to play the rest of the hand heads up in position. If not, fold.