Girl lays down cowboys on river

[MTBlue]

If you smooth call the turn that also allows to call a reasonable size river bet, say of 200. That would mean that the hero put 280 in the pot and could win the hand!. The turn raise line only allows the hero lose 200 if the raise is called no matter what the villain has as long as the villain bets on the end. The other reason the call is better is pot control. The villain will only be able to bet reasonably around 200 on the river and may value bet something like a8 or bluff with a busted draw. I think this hand falls under the either way ahead or way behind category therefore passive play is probably the best line (lose the least, win the most).

[turnipmonster]

I would much rather call a bet on the river than raise the turn. I don't see why we'd want to stop 56 and TT from bluffing/value betting the river.

put another way, hero's decision is on the flop. hero should call the flop if he thinks villian's hand range is wide enough to be betting a worse hand, I can't really see any other reason to call. once we decide we're ahead of that hand range, I don't think it's such a great idea to change our minds based on the fact the SB keeps firing. if I called the flop, I would expect to be looking at two more pot bets from most of the guys I play against.

--turnipmonster

[Richie Rich]

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I don't think there's anything wrong with folding the flop, but since she didn't I really don't like raising the turn unless she's committed, which she was not. I don't think any worse hands can call the turn raise.


[/ QUOTE ]
turnipmonster- as much as I respect your posts, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one. Since hero didn't indicate any strength btf, SB could easily c/r the flop with a number of hands other than 88/44/33, including 56 (for the OESD) or 99/10s (overpair). Hands like 8-4/8-3/4-3 may be possible since villian completed from the SB, just not as likely since they're -EV hands.

Personally I like the hero's non-committing raise on the turn for the sole reason that it allows her to re-gain control of the action (while she's holding what may very well be the best hand). Since hero has position on villian, the turn-raise then acts as a blocking bet before the river. If villian checks at the end, then she can easily check behind for a free showdown. I don't think a free/cheap showdown would've been possible if hero only called the turn bet.

Villian's push on 5th street still puts hero in a semi-tough spot, but laying down KK isn't as hard anymore after the action on the turn. All in all, hero only lost about 1/3 of her stack while holding a big overpair. That's not too shabby, imo.

[halis123456789]

My experience is 2/5 NL.

I sometimes limp with KK in EP hoping to get raised and to add deception. But when the pot is unraised AND the SB and BB are both still in AND the flop comes 3 relatively low cards, I tend to be cautious.

I like the flop bet, but when he raises it seems like the risk of limping backfired here, either one could've hit two pair with a trash hand.

Anyway, it's impossible to fold a $50 raise here, I like the call, but I would continue to play cautiously. Aside from two pair, trips (most likely 3's or 4's) are a worry.

If he raised with a weak 8 on the flop then the 4 is a beautiful card for you, as it makes him feel safe in his two pair. However, he may very well have trips or a full house.

I don't like the raise on the turn at all. If he's bluffing, you're pretty much forcing him to put all his chips in, but you lack information. Just call the turn and see what happens on the river, if he bets $200 you call if he pushes lay it down and gather info.