KJs versus raised pot

What do you do in this situation?

Villian is a TAG. Solid player that'll never raise junk, and sometimes tricky (know's the usual tricks like betting for a free card etc..). We've played against each other numerous times, so he's got an idea of how I play as well. Rest of the table is LP.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO <font color="#A500AF">(villian)</font> raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO <font color="#A500AF">(villian)</font> caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

This was a mistake on my part. I was going to raise if the pot was unraised, so my mouse was over the "raise" area. When villian raised, I didn't catch myself in time and re-raised (kids were distracting me). Too bad, because I'm sure some callers folded because of that [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] On the other hand, since villian capped, I am now fairly sure he has a big pair, as he wouldn't re-raise given he's out of position. I can be fairly certain that I am WB right now.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">villian bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, villian calls.

I raise here to by a free card on the turn if I miss since I have position over villian. The coordinated board helps me here on my semi-bluff if villian doesn't have a piece of the straight draw or flush draw. I think I have sufficient equity in to draw, and the pot is large enough. K's and J's are tainted since there's a good chance that they'll give villian a set, so I can't count on pairs. Really what I'm drawing on is the straight. Also, villian may have a heart, in which case he hits a flush if a heart comes up. However, if he had an overpair with a flush draw, he'd re-raise. I'm pretty certain he doesn't have the flush already, as if he did, he'd re-raise, so I think I'm safe. I think villian has a big pair with no hearts give his call.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
villian checks, Hero checks.

get my free card

River: (8.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
villian checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, villian calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Other than my botched-up re-raise pre-flop, I think I played this ok.

Two questions:
1) Should you play this given a TAG, tricky villian, or do you just fold PF?
2) Was the raise on the flop wise, or should you just call?

[Greg J]

First, fold this preflop. This is not a blind steal, so it's very likely yr KJs is dominated. If it's an isolation play on MP2 then you have to give the devil his due and muck it preflop.

I don't hate the flop raise, but I perfer a call. You are not winning at SD UI, so raising may get you a free look at the river. However, if you just call the flop, he may bet into you on the turn and river, netting you another .5 bbs when you hit yr draw. I think you should only raise the flop when you think you can push him off his hand somehow, and I don't think you can. I perfer a call on the flop, call on the turn if he bets, and raise the river if you hit, folding otherwise.

[TripleH68]

I fold this preflop against TAG.

Tough call on the turn. Checking like you did villain might put you on overcards with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I would rather bet and buy more fold equity if villain has a hand like KQ or AK, esp. since if he has a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

You say villain knows how you play. How do you play?

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You say villain knows how you play. How do you play?

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TAG, generally trying to apply (though all to often misapplying) the principals taught in SSHE, as well as the advice recieved here. I make mistakes still, but if I raise, villian knows it's for a good reason and he'll respect it (as he did here).

[TheKentock]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't hate the flop raise, but I perfer a call. You are not winning at SD UI, so raising may get you a free look at the river. However, if you just call the flop, he may bet into you on the turn and river, netting you another .5 bbs when you hit yr draw.

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Actually, if you raise the river after he bets into you and he calls, you net another BB.

Although with the free card play, he will often bet into you on the river, and you can raise him anyway.

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I don't hate the flop raise, but I perfer a call. You are not winning at SD UI, so raising may get you a free look at the river. However, if you just call the flop, he may bet into you on the turn and river, netting you another .5 bbs when you hit yr draw. I think you should only raise the flop when you think you can push him off his hand somehow, and I don't think you can. I perfer a call on the flop, call on the turn if he bets, and raise the river if you hit, folding otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So here's where I'm still having problems deciding what's right. I was re-reading the section last night in SSHE on pot equity. If I understand it correctly, there's not enough players contributing to the pot to continue to bet at it. I should hit my draw ~1/3 of the time, so for the equity to be correct, I want 2 bets put in for every one of mine, correct? Since we're down to 2, it seems to me that saving bets is actually the prudent thing to do, or do I have this wrong?

thanks for the help!

[Greg J]

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Since we're down to 2, it seems to me that saving bets is actually the prudent thing to do, or do I have this wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is true on much less scarey boards. With this board there is a chance you are drawing dead, and you betting for a free card only means villian reraises and leads into you on the next street. Many of your outs aren't clean as you hate seeing another heart. There is also a chance you are dominated it you make a higher pair, and you can't like seeing a J that much. Plus, if you remember, yr flop raise pushed the third guy out of the way. The pot is big enough just to call a couple of times, but the only thing a rise does is MAYBE buy you a free card (and many thinking TAGs like villian will donk a non heart turn if they think you are trying to pull something over on them).

Remember, the free card play is best used against looser and more passive guys that are not that good at poker. It is an important tool, and has a time and a plsce. I don't think this is it.

[btspider]

fold PF. call flop.

looks like villian has KK.. tho he could have AA/QQ just as easily. if he has overcards with a heart, he'll 3-bet the flop far too often for you to be thinking about auto-seeing the river with your unimpressive equity.

[Greg J]

Access at work now?

[btspider]

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Access at work now?

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yep [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]