Raise pocket 9's in EP? - Page 4

Snarf · #31 12-20-2005, 11:53 AM

Just glancing at this thread w/out putting too much into it...

It seems like many of the replys here:
a) Overvalue pocket pairs
b) Think 99 is similar to AA
c) Overvalue flopped over-pairs...even ones as weak as 99.

I limp 99. I limp 10 10. Hell - sometimes I limp J J.

#32 12-20-2005, 11:53 AM

o sorry. that's of course if you dont hit your set. i guess there are three scenarios 99 will play well.
1. you hit ur set.
2. rag flops (uncoordinated)
3. you hit ur straight somehow. (not the sucker kind)

now even if the rag flops, the pot's so big that the overcards will not be chased off the pot (assuming the opponent is not super weak.) on top of that you will occasionally be up against bigger PP- probably more often that you'd like to be. i mean i agree it plays sorta well, but i def wouldn't feel too comfortable even after a favorable (nonset) flop. doesn't mean im not betting or raising though. i'm bettin/raising until you tell me otherwise.

#33 12-20-2005, 11:58 AM

umm.. so ur saying u'd limp 99 TT JJ on the button with no limpers ahead of you? 1 limper? maniac on the loose? limping JJ regardless of EP or LP is just too passive.

on top of pushing your edges, it's also about mixing it up. you'd be surprised how much more action you'd get on your AA/KK if you mix it up a bit with your medium pockets. sure more action means more painful beats on huge pots but that's what we aim for no?

thejameser · #34 12-20-2005, 12:04 PM

there are acutally alot of reasons to raise mid pocket pairs in EP. alot of time you have the best hand so you raise. you usually prefer less competition to the flop for your hand to hold up to the river so you raise. you want to eliminate as many people behind you as possible to minimize your OOP disadvantage so you raise. it disguises your hand to a certain extent, which is good for shania reasons. a mid pocket pair for me in EP is not an automatic raise, but most of the games inwhich i play tend to be those that i do raise. FWIW, i raise 77+ most of the time in EP. its all about game conditions and how you are viewed, really. you just have to play carefully after the flop and continue with properly faceted aggression to steal or win at showdown. and if i hit a set, watch the fireworks, baby!

#35 12-20-2005, 12:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just glancing at this thread w/out putting too much into it...

It seems like many of the replys here:
a) Overvalue pocket pairs
b) Think 99 is similar to AA
c) Overvalue flopped over-pairs...even ones as weak as 99.

I limp 99. I limp 10 10. Hell - sometimes I limp J J.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to see your reasoning on this...

Nikademus · #36 12-20-2005, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They say you either want to play against 2 or 3 players or 5 or more players.

[/ QUOTE ]
So does this also mean that 99 shouldn't be played against 4 opponents? Seems silly. Why not say, 99 can be played against any amount of opponents.

#37 12-20-2005, 04:23 PM

You're right I over stated the idea of winning with a set. When I explained the 99 was +EV, etc. I based that entirely on flopping a set, then I added "Additionally one can win without flopping a set". What I meant was that there are other oddball situations that I was ignoreing, and that they are overall decent. oddball situations include: [852]r[9], [8TJ]r and [444].

I am guilty of not making it clear that I was putting little emphasis on the non-flopped-set scenarios.

7stud · #38 12-20-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So does this also mean that 99 shouldn't be played against 4 opponents? Seems silly. Why not say, 99 can be played against any amount of opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that there could be a certain number of opponents where 99 does not have a positive EV. A graph of the profitability curve could be at a minimum which is negative against 4 opponents, yet the profitability curve could turn upward into positive territory with 3 or fewer players as well as with 5 or more players.

Against 4 opponents the chances of 99 holding up unimproved are diminished while you may have a tough time collecting 8:1 odds on your preflop call in order to make flopping a set pay off.

SenecaJim · #39 12-20-2005, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just glancing at this thread w/out putting too much into it...

It seems like many of the replys here:
a) Overvalue pocket pairs
b) Think 99 is similar to AA
c) Overvalue flopped over-pairs...even ones as weak as 99.

I limp 99. I limp 10 10. Hell - sometimes I limp J J.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play small stakes, and I assume you do posting in this forum, you are costing yourself money. Period. JJ, wow. I would never limp this hand in small stakes. no limpers, 1 limper, or 5 limpers, if nobody has raised when it gets to my JJ, I"M RAISING. And quite often, depending, I reraise with them as well. Limping JJ is playing scared. not gooot.

#40 12-20-2005, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but i would like to reiterate that 99 does NOT play well against 5 COLD callers. i emphasize 5 COLD CALLERS. ppl do not cold call with nothing. even at small stakes. if the over cards come, you're pretty much toast.

[/ QUOTE ]

A PP does play very well against 5 opponents (cold-callers or not) because, when you set, the pot is so big that they have odds to chase, giving you a bigger EV. In fact, if anything, the fact that they cold-called means you'll get *more* action.