online conspiracy?

[Bowler_Man]

ive been playing online for a while now. I am very successful playing with all types of players at home games, and in casinos. However, online play is a different story i play in my mind the same game. Yet i cant count the number of hands i get busted online. I have never seen so many bad beats in my life. My ability to handle many tough beats in a row is incredible. Im wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar? How trustworthy are the online casinos? Are online hands controled by a program to boost profits?

[Schneids]

So tonight I was playing live at a B&M.

There was this one hand where someone raised JJ and someone else cold called with Q3s and promised the table he was on the start of a heater. The flop was T53 the turn was a blank and the river was a queen. The JJ guy had bet the whole way. It was rough, I felt like something was a little bit fishy.

Then a few hands later someone had AK and someone else had 97d. The flop was KQ9 with one diamond, the turn was an ace of diamonds, and the river was an 8 of diamonds. I couldn't believe that two bad beats had happened in such a short amount of time. Set up plz!! That is just so CONVENIENT to see the turn bring such a beautiful card for AK only to have it go up in flames on the river. This type of stuff just doesn't happen that often right?

The very next hand I got 55 in my BB! The flop was A95 all clubs oh boy!!!!!!!!! I bet and the next guy who looked like he could be in kahoots with my local casino raised, the Q3 guy from before cold called and I 3-bet and both called. The turn was another ace yippee!! I got sneaky and checked. The suspected cheater bet, Mr. Q3 folded this time (I guess he must have not been able to hit a 2 with 22??) and I check raised OMG LOL this is so fun, I've got him now! He called. The river brought a 9 and I bet and Mr. Cheater raised so I folded.

My B&M is rigged to give river jobs every hand!!!!

[Smasharoo]

I'll answer you seriously, since you'll porbably get 100 flames.

Here's what you're experiencing.

Online play is much faster than palying with an actual deck of cards. As a result, you see many more hands per hour.

Because you're seeing so many more hands per hour you're also seeing more statisitical anomalies per hour. You'll see more hands where someone has AA, you'll see more hands where AA is cracked, you'll see more hands where people suck out on the river.

Human nature is to remember unusual events and ignore common ones. Because of this, you're unlikely to remember when AA holds up against Q5, but very likely to remember when it sucks out.

Another aspect of online play is that it forces you to track how much money you win or lose over time. This has the effect of causing many players who thought they were sucessful to realize that in reality they either slowly and steadily loose money or barely break even.

What you should ask yourself is if you really believe that an online site would risk loosing all of it's customers with non random shuffling for no particular reason.

Of course it's possible for an online site to cheat. It's also possible to cheat with a deck of cards. I can deal you two aces and myself 27 and have a board of 7283J. That doesn't mean I would, or that a casino would hire me to.

What would a site have to gain from creating hands where bad hands suck out on good hands? They make money from the rake. How would having bad hands beat good hands get you to play more on their site? That's the goal you understand.

Unless you think they have players who they set up to win with fixed shuffles and they keep your money, in which case, it's tin foil hat time.

If you don't want to realize that there's luck involved in holdem or that you have leaks to fice on your game, don't play online I guess. If you're not enjoying the experience in general don't play online. /shrug.

[Gunsmoke]

My tip is to avoid 50/50's like the plague.

[J_V]

Shame on you Schneids. That post was pretty lame. It's a fair enough question, asked in a polite way.

Besides, that post premise isn't exactly original.

[J_V]

The answer....if you are playing on a major site - almost certianly no conspiracy is going on. Not many bots either.

[playerfl]

I figured out to my satisfaction that the cards are fair, at least on the major sites. Still I think low limit holdem online is a waste of time except as a learning experience for an absolute newbie.

[knifeandfork]

hi bowler,
it does seem to me i see an awful lot of quads on party. I think this can be explained by seeing three times as many hands per hour though. This may not be your problem but it is definitely mine, i lose discipline and patience online. it doesnt seem to make sense at first, because you play so many hands so quickly but the lack of environment, and social setting cause boredom and fps(fancy play syndrome) to set in really quickly.

I keep records of my live play and im up 1100(dont laugh) for the year and down 500 online(feel free to laugh). So online is on the backburner for me until i can "assure" myself that i can play well there. so take a hard look next time you think about playing a marginal hand utg.

i definitely find sng's to be the best way to avoid variance/boredom/ etc. One final note when you get bored with holdem dont go play omaha, 5stud, crazy pineapple etc b/c you think you can outplay the other guys thru talent or natural abilities(also a big leak for me). when i go abck to online its going to be holdem sngs, 6max nl/pl and stud 8 all games ive had success with and feel im more than competent at. just my thoughts
jason

[nickey009]

Why is it that people seem to place the blame on the sites? It gets to me when people say things like "it's a party poker hand."

[MisterKing]

Though there has been ample discussion of these subjects elsewhere on 2+2 (do a search and see for yourself!), I'd raise two topics that do come up frequently when the issue is the honesty of online poker sites:

1.) Bots -- Bonuswhores.com (I am not affiliated in any way, etc.) has blacklisted a few sites for using "bots" as shills for the house. While I'm no expert, I now hear that there may be bots on Party, which is very disconcerting to hear if true. Whatever the case, this is an object of concern as time goes on, as there is the potential for bots (whether run by players or the House) to do substantial harm to online poker.

2.) The "action flop" theory -- While I have no opinion on this, many do. The idea is that online casinos may stack the deck, not for any particular player, but in general to produce more calls, raises, and re-raises. Having more money in the pot is generally in the House's financial interest, as the more money put into play, the greater the rake (profit).

So, without opening a whole new can of worms, if you are concerned about honesty in online poker, these are two things you may want to do a search for and decide for yourself.

As for me, I treat the online poker a little bit like I do sausage, which I enjoy quite a bit. I like it, I eat it, and as long as I don't get sick from it, I don't care how its made. Alternatively put, there's nothing like a few cashouts to make you stop worrying about how fair the cards are dealt...