KK over pair, fold on turn

smokylosecannon · #1 09-15-2005, 06:52 AM

BB is a LP 33/6 based on 90 hands, but no solid read on MP1. I called 2 bets then fold to cap on turn. Did I belive one of them had set? yes I did! or at least AA. Any opinion?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP1 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP1 calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds, BB calls.

#2 09-15-2005, 07:08 AM

I think you can fold when it's two cold to you on the turn, personally. You have shown nothing but aggression and MP1 doesn't seem to give a [censored].

Blartman · #3 09-15-2005, 07:23 AM

Haven't you got to stay in because of the pot size? He could just be pushing with JJ, AQs or even KQs.

Plus you're on a gutshot at this point as well.

But then on PartyPoker, my experience is if there's KK out there's usually AA somewhere as well. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Nick C · #4 09-15-2005, 07:25 AM

I'm pretty sure you're losing, but calling two cold on the turn and then folding for two more could actually both be bad plays.

What does MP1 have? A set he slowplayed on the flop seems likely, and AA and 99 can't be ruled out. And I suppose KJ is also possible, though if he capped with that preflop, you'd think he'd put in action with an OESD on the flop as well.

BB clearly loves his hand too. Maybe it's K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or a flopped set.

KJ would be a horrible hand to be up against, since it would leave you drawing to 1.5 outs (3 outs to a chop). But, jeez, if you're just up against two sets, you have 6 full outs. I can't see folding anymore, once it comes back to you capped on the turn and you're getting 24:2 (BB isn't going to fold), closing the action.

When MP1 wakes up on the turn and it's two to you, I think maybe that's the time to give up. But there is the chance that BB will slow down, and if I folded and he just called, I would wish I could go back and cold-call instead.

Tough hand.

Petteri · #5 09-15-2005, 07:26 AM

I think this is fold when it comes with two bets to you on turn against typical players. Set is probably out or at least AA.

Do not tilt when you every now and when find out that have folded the best hand.

This is not 1 bet on river. Calling 2 bets cold on turn in the middle of raising war requires very strong hand.

#6 09-15-2005, 07:28 AM

I would call for size of the pot if it meant a couple more bets. But this could get really expensive, and in the long run I think it's best to fold it.

smokylosecannon · #7 09-15-2005, 02:44 PM

Here is the result. Thanks for advice guys. I was almost certain that I was losing. I thought initial 2 bets call on turn was questionable, but I also wish I stayed to showdown given the pot size. Anyhow, pot is huge and this is the kind of hand that can really put me on tilt so I wanted objective opinions. He probably shouldn't, but I can understand BB calling on pre-flop, but what was MP1 thinking??? He capped w/ XY... check result! I don't get it! Thanks again

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP1 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP1 calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero folds, BB calls.

River: (24 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, MP1 calls $2.75 (All-In).

Final Pot: 25.68 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 6h 6c (full house, sixes full of nines).
MP1 has 7c 8c (straight, ten high).
Outcome: BB wins 25.68 BB.

Bodhi · #8 09-15-2005, 02:50 PM

Why did you check the turn? Your show of weakness will cause your opponents to take advantage of you. Also, once you call 2 bets on the turn, you have to call 2 more simply because of your pot-odds. You're getting better than 10:1, and you have a gutshot for 4 outs + an additional out or so for spiking a K + the crazy chance that you're ahead.

Bodhi · #9 09-15-2005, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But then on PartyPoker, my experience is if there's KK out there's usually AA somewhere as well.

[/ QUOTE ] Rubbish.

W. Deranged · #10 09-15-2005, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But then on PartyPoker, my experience is if there's KK out there's usually AA somewhere as well.

[/ QUOTE ] Rubbish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bodhi wins the "Best Use of a Forgotten Word" award for today... nh, B.