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Old 07-04-2005, 10:04 PM
grass grass is offline
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Default the real simon trumper

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/poker...amp;id=2100457


Barry Greenstein is peeved. He probably would show signs of anger if this wasn't about 12 hours after an episode that occurred early Sunday morning in the $10,000 buy-in Pot Limit Omaha tournament.

"I'm fourth in chips with about $45,000 or so,'' Greenstein begins. "I hadn't been raising that many hands before the flop, and I picked up K-K-J-10, spades and clubs. A couple people limped in and I raised the pot to make it $1,650. Two people called, so the pot was a little over $5,000. I got a good flop: Q-J-6 with two spades, so I had an overpair, straight draw and the second-nut flush draw. I bet $4,500, almost the size of the pot. One guy called, Simon Trumper. Now the pot is a little under $15,000.

"The turn is the ace of clubs, which gives me the nuts and the second-nut flush draw. I don't know if he's flopped a set. He checked to me on the button, and I bet $12,000. He thought for 10 seconds and called. So, at this point, he's supposed to have either the nut-flush draw or some straight draws. He doesn't know I have the absolute nuts, so he might think his straight draws are good. He probably thinks I have a set of aces or queens, unless he somehow has them.

"Whatever his call is, he's probably not getting the right odds. He doesn't know I have the nuts. If he has a spade draw, I have two spades out of the deck. If he has a set, I've got one of the cards. He's probably not getting full odds for his call.

"I'm hoping for a small red card that doesn't pair. But a spade comes off (on the river). Now I'm afraid he's going to bet into me if he has the nut-flush draw. But he checks. Now, my question is, should I turn over the second nuts or should I bet it? It might be right to turn it over. It's a real big pot. At this point there's $39,000 in the pot, and I've only got about $27,000 left. So, I said I'll make a big enough bet so that if he raises, he'd almost have to have the nuts. So, I grabbed some chips and bet $17,500.

"And he went in the tank - this is with less than a half-hour to go in the tournament (for the night) - for way more than five minutes. People are thinking of calling the clock on him. It's the end of the night and people want to play. But he's just sitting there, sitting there, sitting there. I'm being courteous in not calling the clock on him. He's looking at me, he's looking at people. Everyone's waiting for him to act. People want him to do something.

"Finally, after 10 minutes, he says, "OK, I raise.'' My last $8,000 or $9,000. At this point, I'm saying the raise only makes sense if he's got the nuts, because I've represented a strong hand. I thought I was beat, but I looked at what I had left and it wouldn't be much if I fold, and it's going to be a pot of $90,000 or so.''

At this point. Greenstein says he's pretty sure he beaten, but he has a specific reason for not wanting to fold: He wanted to confirm that Trumper would sit there for that long - look, three minutes of indecision at a poker table seems like forever --and waste everyone's time when he was holding the nuts all along and not trying to run a bluff with, say, a lower flush than Greenstein held.

"I said I would hate to condemn someone to be a (naughty word) for taking 10 minutes of everyone's time at the end of the night and somehow be mistaken,'' Greenstein said. "So, I called. Of course he had the nuts.

"That's something that real poker players would never do, because then you get everyone doing stuff like that. It's kind of an accepted thing that you don't cheat, you don't certain things, because if some people do it, then everyone now feels they're forced to combat it by doing the same type of thing. You don't slow-roll because then everyone else slow-rolls.

"But when you play in tournaments, you play with people who really don't have a concept of this. I'm not saying everyone, but a lot of these people. These people should be, frankly, eliminated from the sport, so we would have a cleaner sport. People like this shouldn't be allowed to play. That's how severe it is. These are the same types of people who, when they go to a new table and see it's their big blind, they walk to a different table so they don't have to take the big blind. It's this type of behavior that, frankly, shouldn't be allowed. These people aren't real poker players, is all I can say about it. Very irritating to deal with people like that.

"I got up and left. Everyone at the table looked at me like they knew what a jerk he was. Now, when I talk to people - I'm letting people know this is what this guy does; it's important to get the word out when people do stuff like this - and what I've gotten from people is, 'Everyone knows he's a (naughty word). You just didn't know.' His name is Simon 'Aces' Trumper and apparently he has a website.

"Ten minutes isn't what was necessary. He could've taken 15 seconds to give a hint of doubt to me about whether he did have the nuts. There's poker; I understand it. But there's a certain amount of time that's right and certain amount of time that's wrong. No good players would ever do anything like this.''

But wait. It gets worse.

"Even when he turned his hand over,'' Greenstein said, "he turned over the 8 of spades, and then the ace of spades. He slow-rolled his hand.''

Greenstein was so worked up a day later, poker pro Thor Hansen said, that he marched over the to area where Trumper was playing the in the Pot Limit Omaha event and told him to his face that he should be thrown out.

"I've known Barry 11 years,'' Hansen said, "and I've never seen him like that.''
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2005, 10:12 PM
eric5148 eric5148 is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

I'm not familiar with the rules. If he called the clock on Trumper, how much time would he have been given?

Why is it not cool to call the clock on someone?
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  #3  
Old 07-04-2005, 10:18 PM
grass grass is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

[ QUOTE ]

Why is it not cool to call the clock on someone?

[/ QUOTE ]

courtesy.
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2005, 10:19 PM
Punker Punker is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

If Greenstein thought he was taking too long, he should call the clock. Theres no need to put in a rule to deal with people like this. The rule already exists.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2005, 10:46 PM
Rosie5 Rosie5 is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

for extra bad assery, Trumper knows he probably killed 4-5 starving children by knocking Greenstein out.

I don't see how his move is any different from check raising, he did something completely within the rules.
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2005, 10:55 PM
Kevmath Kevmath is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

From the TDA rules:

[ QUOTE ]
Once a reasonable amount of time has passed and a clock is called for, a player will be given one minute to make a decision. If action has not been taken by the time the minute is over, there will be a 10-second countdown. If a player has not acted on his hand by the time the countdown is over, the hand will be dead.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kevin...
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2005, 10:57 PM
Kevmath Kevmath is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

I don't think Barry's problem is about calling the clock on Simon, it's Simon taking his sweet time to play the hand while having the nuts, then slow-rolling his nut flush.

Kevin...
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2005, 11:02 PM
Moonsugar Moonsugar is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

LMAO @ barryg1. What a primadonna two faced little girl.

You can't wait 5 minutes at the end of the night but its ok to publicly accuse someone of collusion without any evidence?

You got played, suck it up and move on.

edit to remove offensive language
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2005, 11:10 PM
maurile maurile is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

[ QUOTE ]
You can't wait 5 minutes at the end of the night but its ok to publicly accuse someone of collusion without any evidence?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're referring to Jennifer Harman and Daniel Negreanu, he didn't accuse them of collusion.

What's with the name-calling?
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2005, 11:14 PM
Paul Phillips Paul Phillips is offline
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Default Re: the real simon trumper

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how his move is any different from check raising, he did something completely within the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every word he wrote is dead-on. If you can't see what makes it different then read it again.

There are a great many "tragedy of the commons" type behaviors that it is understood you just don't do because (as he clearly spells out) the "defense" against them is for everyone to do them, and everyone loses big if everyone does them. Dragging out a river check-raise with the nuts is the most unambiguous example of this I can think of.

If you play any number of tournaments you should know exactly what he is talking about. If you don't then your opinion has no relevance.
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