Super Tuesday Final Table Hand vs. Chip Leader

I like calling here also. His bet is a "put to the test" bet, and he could just as easily have a made hand as not. I dont like raising bc it risks too much and gains to little. I think you can pass his test with a call just as easily as a raise. good line.

[betgo]

I am not crazy about raising the tournament leader's blinds with AT either.

However, now that you got there, I don't like folding. He might call the raise and lead the flop with a probing bet with anything. This is a flop that is likely to hit a lot of hands, but villain could easily just have a piece of it.

I think you have to atleast call the weak bet with your gutshot and overcard.

However, I like a push. You are a 7-3 dog against Qx or Jx, 4-1 dog against QJ or AQ, and a 5-1 dog agisnt 66. There is a lot of money in the pot. Even if villain has a pair, you are not that chip EV- with pot odds. Villain may have nothing and probably can't call with second pair. I think semibluff push is a good play.

Look at it from villain's perspective. You raised the ship leader's blinds. Couldn't you have AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 66, AQ, or KQ? It's hard for him to call a push without atleast top pair.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

What about pre-flop?

On the flop, maybe we can call and get away from it on the turn. But certainly if we raise we're pot committed given our stack size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, which makes a call that much more attractive, especially if it gets us a free river.

PF I'm kinda meh.....I think folding ATs is a little weak tight, but you are raising the chip leader's BB so usually like to have a bigger gun than ATs.

If you flopped a flush draw with overs and he leads and you push, he folds or calls and you beat him you're brilliant, with this flop you're not.

If I *know* I'm getting played with, I really don't like AT.....but dammit its sooooted.....50/50.

Regards,
Woodguy

I was watching this and I believe your biggest mistake was going in to your time bank. Even as a bystander I figured you were trying to to decide on whether or not to bluff. If you immediately went all in I do not think he could have called you.

[adanthar]

Without reading the other comments yet:

This is a bad raise that I would easily open fold, not just because the BB is a huge stack but because the button/SB are also large. You want nothing to do with what's essentially a steal raise here.

So you get called and he underbets the QJx flop. I think you have an average of maybe 5 outs here, but what you do depends on his play. Calling sucks because you're going to be facing another bet on the turn, so IMO, this is a very quick push or a quick fold (keeping in mind in order for the push to work, you have to know he's bluffing/won't call over 50%). There's not really an in between.

[bruce]

Here's my two cents.

Preflop against the chip leaders blind, esp. an aggressive one,
if I play this hand, which I probably would I open push. If you open raise conventionally he will call with a lot of hands and you'll whiff most times and it's easy for you to be outplayed from the flop.

Given the way you played the hand with his small flop bet I
either fold or I push. I don't like calling. It appears weak and with your chip stack if he has anything a turn bet will not move him. By pushing you have a fair amount of FE,
so take advantage of it.

Bruce

[tshak]

[ QUOTE ]
If I *know* I'm getting played with, I really don't like AT.....but dammit its sooooted.....50/50.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has ATo here. I thought it was suited at first too. I think considering the payouts I would open-fold here. I could open-raise maybe in MP3 since I'm in a slightly better position and since I'm not dealing with the bigstack's blinds.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's my two cents.

Preflop against the chip leaders blind, esp. an aggressive one,
if I play this hand, which I probably would I open push. If you open raise conventionally he will call with a lot of hands and you'll whiff most times and it's easy for you to be outplayed from the flop.

Given the way you played the hand with his small flop bet I
either fold or I push. I don't like calling. It appears weak and with your chip stack if he has anything a turn bet will not move him. By pushing you have a fair amount of FE,
so take advantage of it.

Bruce

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the raise. What do you do if you are reraised? With 2 big stacks in the blinds, you are unlikely to steal the blinds with a small raise.

Preflop, a push is borderline with 12xBB no ante into 5 players. I think the push is probably slightly chip EV+. I wouldn't necessarily fold preflop. Pushing or limping may be better, but I don't like the raise.

When the tournament leader calls in the BB and makes a weak lead, easy push. He might play that way with anything. You are getting 1.7-1 pot odds and you are a 2.3-1 dog to a pair. You probably have a lot of folding equity, so push.

I don't think flat calling is that bad. Villain made a small bet, so you can call and draw to your 7 outs, 4 of them nut outs. I wouldn't fold.

[Lloyd]

This obviously was a tough hand, not only because it knocked me out but because I just didn't know what to do with it at any stage. 8-handed, essentially in middle position I thought it was pretty weak to fold especially given that I hadn't played too many hands and my raise has to mean something.

On the flop, I figured he had anywhere from two pair (QJ) to a middle pair to a draw to a complete bluff. I went in the tank and pushed figuring my Ace was possibly live plus the 4 outs to Broadway. Afterwards I figured that he'd have to fold at least 30% of the time to make a push worthwhile given that I was probably at best a 3 to 1 dog if called.

He called me with JT. I was a bit surprised by that. It was an insta-call in fact. Yeah, he was the chip leader but I still had enough chips to damage his stack. As one poster said, I did go into the tank and wondered how that was perceived. But for me, even if I had an overpair I'd pause and think about for a little bit before committing all my chips against such a funny bet. I think he took my hesitation as weakness (rightfully so, of course). So it was either a great read or a horrible play by him - funny how a lot of situations end up that way. Just like someone playing a hand in such a way that they have absolutely nothing or the nuts.

I wasn't on tilt during this hand as I had actually gone from about 18k in chips to over 100k in the span of about 20 hands taking advantage of a lot of tight play at my table when down to 20 players. But it was late in the evening and I think me being up for quite awhile impacted my decision. In hindsight I think this was a fold pre-flop because of the shorter stacks who could bust and move me up in the money, and the bigger stacks in the blind who could bust me. Tommy Angelo talks about "tiltless poker" and this is an example - I should have done things to increase the liklihood that I was sharp and focused on the decisions at hand.

[betgo]

You were a 7-3 dog not a 3-1 dog. The push was fine. You had pot odds and FE.

Rather than saying I have ATo I can't fold it, you should be looking at whether the hand is useful to you in this situation. I play a lot of supersatllites and I fold good hands and push with junk all the time.

Raising 2.75xBB into the big stacks' blinds seems strange. Did you consider pusing or limping?

12xBB is a difficult stack to play without antes. Also, I don't mind playing a little tight and move up while some shorter stacks bust.

I don't think ATo is that great a hand that I mind folding it that much. Pushing preflop may be slightly chip EV+, but I would fold and wait for a better opportunity.