Let's get it started: USA vs. Europe

[hetron]

Enough of the right wing people on this forum trashing of Europe and the "European nanny state". If things were so bad over there, we would be seeing tons of immigrants from Western Europe these days. That immigration isn't happening, generally because people from there don't want to leave to come here. Obviously the nanny state ain't doing too bad.


Forget for a second about the world of theoretical economics where "socialism must fail" and other talking points we hear bandied about on this forum. Let's talk about what is really going on.

I would like to haer some observations from people who have spent significant amount of time living in both Europe and the US make a comparison between the two. Here are some things I noticed in terms of differences between the two.


The average European works to live, the average American lives to work. On average I would say European workers are happier working less hours, with more frequent vacations, in exchange for a slightly lower salary in comparison with their american coworkers.

What's wrong with that? If you make more money but don't have time to enjoy spending it, what's the point.

Both Americans and Europeans have high tax rates, but more of the European tax money goes into social programs, rather than defense spending.

Again, what's wrong with that? If I pay high taxes, I want the money spent on good public education and socialized health care. I don't want the money spent on bombs and guns that I frankly don't feel make me any safer.

- more talking points to come! in the mean time, flame away! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[shots]

While I agree that working too much may be not be the best thing isn't this simply a lifestyle choice? Is there anything stoping people from not working as much in the US? If you're content to make just enough to live on then good for you but if you want to get financially ahed in life and are willing to wrok hard for it that's not really a bad thing either.

Europeen countries don't have to spend as much on defense because they know the US will be there if anything ever happens. If we decided to cut spending on the military and let it dwindle to the status of some europeen countries it would be just a matter of time untill china takes over the world. Also you mention that both pay high taxes but aren't the taxes higher in most of Europe? I'm no expert on this subject but I've always heard from any europeens I talk to that the taxes are ridiculous there.

Overall I would say that if you don't particullarily care about moving up in the financial world you might be better off in europe But if you're the kind of person who is driven and willing to work hard to get ahead you have much more oppertunity to do so in America.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
If we decided to cut spending on the military and let it dwindle to the status of some europeen countries it would be just a matter of time untill china takes over the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. naturally if we cut spending, the consequence would be China taking over the world.

[Greg J]

In his defense everything else he said made sense.

[kurto]

Well, I certainly don't contest that Europeans choose to (if you will) work to live as opposed to live to work. It is a choice they've made as a society. (though I don't think its necessarily a choice individuals can make... I think there are people living in America who can't realistically make the choice Europeans have... ie, they can't decide to work 35 hours a week, take 6 week vacations and 'enjoy' their lives. I don't doubt that there are many people working 60 hours a week struggling to make ends meet... but this is neither here nor there.)

The guy just cracks me up because he peppers his posts with little bits of concentrated nonsense. He's made some argument in another thread that people have to commute longer in nations that are bigger... yet there is no evidence to support this (and its a completely illogical premise... it doesn't take into accounts any of the real factors which effect commute times)

I have no doubt he can occasionally say something sensible. But those nuggets are sprinkled amongst really bizarre nonsensicall statements.

[shots]

Again you live outside the real world I didn't say that if we just cut spending china would take over the world but you do love your straw man arguments. What I did say is that if we cut spending to the point where our military dwindled to the level of some europeen countries sooner or later the chinese would realise they could take over the US and once that happend they would seize that oppertunity as the only superpower left in the world. I know you think that would never happen because we could just be nicer to them and then they would leave us alone but that's not how the real world works.

[lastchance]

Nukes exist right now. Until some anti-nuke system happens, the only way any country is taking over the world is through economics and culture. Military spending against economic takeover and subterfuge is very weak.

[hetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Again you live outside the real world I didn't say that if we just cut spending china would take over the world but you do love your straw man arguments. What I did say is that if we cut spending to the point where our military dwindled to the level of some europeen countries sooner or later the chinese would realise they could take over the US and once that happend they would seize that oppertunity as the only superpower left in the world. I know you think that would never happen because we could just be nicer to them and then they would leave us alone but that's not how the real world works.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are talking about the 'real world' and 'straw man arguments'? And you have the audacity to say that Europe isn't going to be taken over because the US is there to protect it??? Do you really believe that?

[shots]

The US protects what's in it's own best intrest of course it would protect any europeen country that was invaded by outside forces because it's in our best intrest.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
If we decided to cut spending on the military and let it dwindle to the status of some europeen countries it would be just a matter of time untill china takes over the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't say that if we just cut spending china would take over the world

[/ QUOTE ]

Must be me.