No Limit Holdem Question

David Sklansky · #1 05-04-2003, 08:36 PM

200-400 blinds. All fold to button who has more chips than you. He makes it 1200. You have KQs in small blind and push in your 3400. Big blind folds. Button calls 2200 with A2 offsuit. Did you play it right? Did he? Why?

MHoydilla · #2 05-04-2003, 09:23 PM

I assume this is a tourny. If so please indicate what place your in, total number of chips/players left, estimate of raisers stack, and how many players are paid with amounts of payoff. Thanks

Mike Gallo · #3 05-04-2003, 09:42 PM

I will take a stab at this.

I think the raise is a mistake. I have made an even money bet. If I make my flush I went all in so I cannot collect more bets. I have no implied odds since I went all in preflop.

If I spike a King or a Queen, I cannot push him out of the pot so he can chase an Ace.

I do not think I would go all in under those circumstances.

Flame Away [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Michael

MHoydilla · #4 05-04-2003, 10:03 PM

Even without knowing any additional info the call of reraise by the button is definitely wtong unless he can legitimately put you on a steal. The hands you are likly to have with a reraise are either a bigger ace or a pocketpair both of which make the button a greater than a 2-1 dog something like 7-3 dog on pair and approx 3-1 dog againest a bigger ace. In calling the only thing he can hope for are 2 middle cards in that case hes barely a 3-2 fav and in many cases 5-4 fav. I think the button would have to lay this down.

AceHigh · #5 05-04-2003, 10:09 PM

I think this is one of those situations where you/Small Blind want to save a bet for the flop if you are KQs. If you don't hit the flop you want to bet out and try and get the button to fold.

At 2.3:1 or so, I would think the button would have a call unless he thought you had a high probability of holding AA. Especially if he is not that close to going all-in.

Robk · #6 05-04-2003, 10:53 PM

I think the button's openraise is terrible.

MHoydilla · #7 05-04-2003, 11:22 PM

I agree rob the buttons raise is bad. If he must raise, risking the minimum seems like a much better option because if the BB reraises as in this case he can release his hand with no worries because he wouldnt be pot stuck, which in my mind would be the posible reason the button could call in this example.

flopdanutz · #8 05-04-2003, 11:30 PM

A2o
KQs

Which of the two has the better chance at being ahead on the flop? (so the turn and river are unplayable).

right now I will assume A2o is greatly ahead on the the flops so I think A2o made the correct play by raising against hands that were most likely behind on the flop. If they call and they flop nothing then A2o can bet the flop correctly and Since A2o is ahead most of the time then there is positive expectation from raising on the button.

Since KQs has only to commit 3400 chips to win an additional 4400 chips and has a 45% or so chance of winning KQs has positive expectation. I do not know what the expectations would be to call and see a flop and play from there but it could be negative (I am not a math [or even poker] whiz)
if KQs put in all the chips and got the others to fold that would be great, no risk of losing chips! but since A2o has positive expectation to call A2o should call.

IMO both players put in their chips with positive expectation. so i guess both players played correctly unless they are risk averse for some reason

My initial reaction to the question: (but is there more?)
It seems like overall A2o has a slight advantage when going all in against KQs. (53% or 54%) to (45% or 46%). with 1 % or so chance to tie. (correct? I am unsure)

By going all in both players have positive expectation versus folding or not going all in. Since more information was not given about the hand, ie tournament status, opponent tendencies I did not try to include any other possibly relevant information
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Robk · #9 05-04-2003, 11:47 PM

You are still assuming a tourney though, right? I was responding to it as a cash game question. If it's a tourney I'm not really sure, although what you say sounds reasonable. I don't play them too often [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Jimbo · #10 05-05-2003, 12:03 AM

"You are still assuming a tourney though, right?"

Look at it like this, if you can afford to play N/L Holdem with 200/400 blinds the bets and raises are pocket change so this must be a tourney! [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Plus at these limits in a cash game the small blind was a short stack and was probably prepared to either rebuy or get a job delivering pizzas.