Playing Queens when overcard hits

deepsquat · #1 03-11-2005, 07:33 AM

Can i please have some tips on how to play a hand like this. Thanks. No reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Brian · #2 03-11-2005, 07:39 AM

Raise the Turn in general in these situations, but especially here as you have 8-10 outs vs. an Ace. Turn bets like these into the pre-Flop raiser are often bluffs or semi-bluffs. Of course, it's sometimes the Ace as well. But the pot is relatively large, and you've got a vulnerable hand to protect as SB is still in the pot.

Check down the River if you raise the Turn.

-Brian

ArturiusX · #3 03-11-2005, 07:44 AM

I'd raise this turn, you still have a strong draw vs an ace, thats even if he HAS the ace.

He might have KQ though, so you might be drawing dead too.

caggin · #4 03-11-2005, 08:45 AM

I think I'd play this the same way. UTG+1 raised preflop, this greatly increases the likelihood that he has an A. On the turn, I don't want to be 3-bet, since I have 6-8 outs to the straight, plus maybe (though probably not) 2 more to trips. I don't think getting rid of SB helps us much. What is he holding (that he would fold) that we want to get rid of? On the river, I make a crying call, but I expect to beat here.

Bokonnon · #5 03-11-2005, 08:59 AM

FWIW, I agree with caggin. In my experience (such as it is) the pre-flop raiser waking up when an A hits usually means one in his hand. But I call down. When I win I say a little thank you to Ed Miller.

I could, of course, be wildly wrong. (About not raising, I mean -- not about thanking Ed.)

Buckmulligan · #6 03-11-2005, 11:34 AM

I don't understand why he would raise the turn.
We are discussing his turn decision in terms of the fact that he is most likely against an A, or most likely behind. Therefore, it appears that he is drawing at about 3.5:1. Given the fact that he is drawing, he is getting 7.5:1 on the call, and very good implied odds if he his on the river because UTG may very well bet into him again. A raise seems like a spew here, as you are asking the SB to exit the pot and the UTG to look for a free showdown, something you don't want if you hit your hand.

MrEngenic · #7 03-11-2005, 11:58 AM

In the overwhelming majority of the time you will be behind (if UTG is a solid player!!!). There is no UTG raising hand that doesnt beat you. TT, JJ, KK, KQ, AA, AK, AQ, AJ, 88. You are ahead if he has 99. You cant be sure that a Q will help you either and Kc could give them a flush etc
I would never have time to think about all this when playing though so I would call down. =)

droolie · #8 03-11-2005, 12:34 PM

I call this turn. Since he raised pf how many hands could he have that you're not losing to right now? You're 90% likely to be drawing and he will not fold to a reraise unless he's bluffing. You don't want him to fold if he's bluffing.

The question is what do you do on the river when you miss your draw?

elbuddha · #9 03-11-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A raise seems like a spew here, as you are asking the SB to exit the pot and the UTG to look for a free showdown, something you don't want if you hit your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling and raising are close. Raising has its advantages.

SB exiting the pot on the turn is not necessarily a bad thing. It hurts our pot equity, but costs us the pot if he hits _his_ draw. Getting more of his money here on the turn is also a good thing if he would fold unimproved on the river (obviously he didn't, but we don't know that on the turn).

As for UTG, you have position and therefore aren't going to give him a free showdown if you hit your hand. But a free showdown sure would be nice if we don't.

That said, getting 3-bet would suck.

LazyRobot · #10 03-11-2005, 01:43 PM

Because I suck

I am raising this turn and taking a free showdown, prolly has you beat but who cares, raising is fun

err, no really, I am not convinced you are behind - perhaps I am getting rusty but I still like raising and folding to three bet