Common Hand 1

exist · #1 10-02-2005, 10:56 AM

Hi guys, I'm trying out the 15 game on party. I'm used to the 10-20 6max and need help figuring out how to adjust to the differences. I know people in this forum are often bored by routine hands, but this is exactly where I need feedback. Please help me out if you can.

For this particular hand, let's say UTG+1 is an unknown, which happens very often since I haven't gathered many hands at the 15 game yet. Thoughts on this line?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, Hero folds.

River: (12 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

#2 10-02-2005, 11:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi guys, I'm trying out the 15 game on party. I'm used to the 10-20 6max and need help figuring out how to adjust to the differences. I know people in this forum are often bored by routine hands, but this is exactly where I need feedback. Please help me out if you can.

For this particular hand, let's say UTG+1 is an unknown, which happens very often since I haven't gathered many hands at the 15 game yet. Thoughts on this line?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, Hero folds.

River: (12 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

[/ QUOTE ]
Against a sane opponent this is a good fold on the turn. You are getting the odds to draw to a five outer, but you are very unlikely to have even 3 outs in this situation. The only hand the villain can have that makes it correct to draw against is AA, but even in that rosy scenario, the King of diamonds is probably not an out given the tenacity of the CO in this hand. With no read, the likely hands of the villain given this action are AA,KK,QQ,TT,AQ,KQ. You are not correct to draw against that range even though you are getting 12-1 to call. This is a classic "book" fold. But the problem here is that party doesnt play by the book. A specific read could easily change this from a fold to an easy call.

InfernoLL · #3 10-02-2005, 01:09 PM

What's the thought process behind betting the turn if you're going to fold for one more bet? Would you have called if the CO folded? (If you were specifically trying to charge AK for it's 7 outs, I understand the play.)

I like a check on the turn, as you can call one bet and see the river, or fold if it's two bets back to you. Without any read on UTG+1 I don't see any reason for the stop 'n go unless it's specifically to knock the CO out, in which case folding when he calls still feels weird. There might also not be any merit to this play in the first place. I try not to put myself in situations where I'm folding top pair good kicker for one bet, especially in a game as unpredictable as the Party 15.

Fianchetto · #4 10-02-2005, 01:24 PM

Your hand + that flop + party 15 = you should plan on getting to showdown almost all the time.

I don't like your little stop 'n go on the flop/turn. I'd rather check raise the flop and lead the turn, or bet/3-bet the flop. Or if you are really concerned about UTG+1's hand, or know he is decent, then just call it down once you get raised on the flop.

The way you played it puts him in a position to move you off your hand, he may have you beat yes, but could also be testing you with something like QJ, AT, or a pair + draw that wants a free showdown, etc..

exist · #5 10-02-2005, 02:37 PM

Thankyou for all the replies. I guess in general, bet/fold lines in the Party 15 are dangerous. So a good SOP would be checkraise flop and call down a 3 bet? Or, at the very least in the line I took, check call turn and river?

As a tangent, does anyone know how to find posts from about a year ago? I was trying to find some old Peter_Rus posts but I can't figure out how to get to them.

haakee · #6 10-02-2005, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like a check on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't, although it's better to check the turn than to bet and fold to a raise here. The problem is a lot of the time you're going to have the best hand here, and the board is very drawy. I'd hate to see it checked around if I checked. So the right play is to bet and call a raise here.

DeeJ · #7 10-02-2005, 04:12 PM

top pair 2nd nut kicker is good enough for me to call down an unknown. It's close though, I think if I had QJ here I would lay it down as UTG+1 is raising into 2 opponents. But he might just have AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or something like that with a semibluff raise. I don't think this is a huge mistake, but I'd look him/others up now and then when raised on the turn just so you don't get raised into more than aboslutely necessary.