who needs a free card?

wheelz · #1 10-10-2005, 12:15 AM

villain is unknown. tell me this is standard.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

sthief09 · #2 10-10-2005, 12:47 AM

there's enough draw there that I might feel inclined to pay off, so I like a free showdown turn raise which might even fold a better hand

baronzeus · #3 10-10-2005, 12:48 AM

i raise the turn

err actually im not sure if i want to go to showdown. will think more.

Jeff W · #4 10-10-2005, 12:54 AM

Neutral Evaluation of Turn Raise:

1. You have to fold a better hand or successfully get to showdown with the best hand unimproved >1/8.23 times to justify the turn raise.

2. Raising the turn lowers your implied odds on the river.

cartman · #5 10-10-2005, 02:01 AM

I usually raise the flop and bet the turn here when my draw has showdown value and my opponent isn't very aggressive.

Against an opponent very likely to be bluffing or very likely to 3-bet or stop and go I just call down like you did planning on calling the river also unless maybe a spade hits.

I don't like the turn raise unless I know he is capable of folding a better hand that he would also have donked the flop with and this is rare against my typical opponents.

If you guys had raised the flop you would take the free card on the turn?

What do you guys think of raising the flop and betting the turn?

Thanks,
Cartman

ALL1N · #6 10-10-2005, 02:14 AM

A few things:
-I don't think you have much if any showdown equity: you're only beating small flush draws.
-I don't think you've got much fold equity: if he has a slightly better hand than you, he'll often have a gutshot too.
-All your outs are scare cards, so I don't think you get to raise the turn very often when you hit.

All this makes me think you should raise the flop, take a free card, and fold the river.

flawless_victory · #7 10-10-2005, 04:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A few things:
-I don't think you have much if any showdown equity: you're only beating small flush draws.
-I don't think you've got much fold equity: if he has a slightly better hand than you, he'll often have a gutshot too.
-All your outs are scare cards, so I don't think you get to raise the turn very often when you hit.

All this makes me think you should raise the flop, take a free card, and fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]BINGO.

Jeff W · #8 10-10-2005, 05:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
All this makes me think you should raise the flop, take a free card, and fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. The flop bet is more likely to be a made hand than a draw.

NLSoldier · #9 10-10-2005, 05:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All this makes me think you should raise the flop, take a free card, and fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. The flop bet is more likely to be a made hand than a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when?

Jeff W · #10 10-10-2005, 05:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop bet is more likely to be a made hand than a draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think that >50% of the time, the flop bet is a draw?