turn 3-bet/fold

wheelz · #1 09-26-2005, 06:44 PM

villain is 35/7/0.5, ASB 13 after 100 hands.

Prima Poker 20/40 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (4.5 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

wackjob · #2 09-26-2005, 06:58 PM

Your post doesn't make sense. How can you 3-bet the button when you are CO?

Either way, I wouldn't 3-bet the turn. Call & donk the river if it is a brick. Call a river raise as well.

wheelz · #3 09-26-2005, 07:22 PM

oops, i'm sb.

why wouldn't you 3-bet the turn?

joker122 · #4 09-26-2005, 07:24 PM

wow - i rarely fold to a cap here. you'll see some players do this with another AQ or even KQ, and so i don't fold with out a better read than just numbers.

wheelz · #5 09-26-2005, 07:28 PM

well i've played all 100 hands with him, so i do have a read, but the numbers do a good job of describing it. he's loose-passive post and preflop, does a lot of calling and not much raising. hasn't gotten out of line.

MarkD · #6 09-26-2005, 07:33 PM

This guy is not agressive - and the turn raise is a big move. Does a turn cap have to be a set or AA? Unfortunately I don't think it does - I think he can have two pair here sometimes and he can definitely have KK.

This means that after you 3-bet and he caps you are forced to call. Sucks but you simply have to call getting 11.5-1. Now, you are on the river and the pot has 12.5BB's in it and after you check you will getting 13.5-1 to call with top pair - it might be worth it.

So, in this scenario you invested a ton of bets into the pot and all you had to do was call down. The only thing the 3-bet is defending against is a small pair + flush draw semi-bluff raise or a worse queen raising. You get an extra bet in these cases, but if you just call down you save yourself a lot of bets in the other cases.

I think calling on the turn instead of 3-betting saves you many bets at the expense of winning just a few.

wheelz · #7 09-26-2005, 08:17 PM

yep, you're right, good post. in the actual hand i decided to just call down, and he had a worse queen. i thought about 3-betting, to get value out of worse hands, and also lose the same if i was behind because i thought i could fold if he capped since he was so passive. after looking into it though, no i definitely can't fold to the turn cap, so just calling down is better. turns out there really isn't that many combinations of hands i'm in real bad shape against.

Surfbullet · #8 09-26-2005, 09:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yep, you're right, good post. in the actual hand i decided to just call down, and he had a worse queen. i thought about 3-betting, to get value out of worse hands, and also lose the same if i was behind because i thought i could fold if he capped since he was so passive. after looking into it though, no i definitely can't fold to the turn cap, so just calling down is better. turns out there really isn't that many combinations of hands i'm in real bad shape against.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sneaky! I was wondering why you didn't just call down, that would be my default. The 3bet-fold is an interesting line but it doesn't have enough merit with a hand as strong as yours it seems. Having position would be better, too.

Surf