NYC poker raid?

[BottlesOf]

Ok, so hold'em is just a lottery that looks like poker. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[jnalpak]

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because they claimed they were really just a lottery that looks like a slot machine.

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Did they actually claim slot machines to be like lottery but with machines? Thats quite amusing...So a mindless game which is PURE GAMBLING in which you just endlessly throw 10c/25c/$1 coins into a machine and pull a handle is NOT considered gambling. But a game where you get dealt cards and use your knowledge to take an advantage is considered gambling...meh!

someone once posted that California was very slow out of the gate too when it was first proposed to allow "card halls" to be opened. Does anyone know how california/florida actually started the legislation to allow poker?

Maybe the catskills is the first step towards this type of thing.

[IgorSmiles]

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Ok, so hold'em is just a lottery that looks like poker. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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now youre thinking Boom Boom.

[giantsrule]

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The problem is that people typically don't know what a "player" actually is, under NYS Penal Law, because they have never heard of subsections 3 and 4, of Section 225.00, of the NY State Penal Law. Why would they? Those two subsections define what is a "player" and what it means to "advance a gambling activity", according to the NYS Penal Law (which happens to be the Law that will throw you in jail, in NYS).

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3. "Player" means a person who engages in any form of gambling solely as a contestant or bettor, without receiving or becoming entitled to receive any profit therefrom other than personal gambling winnings, and without otherwise rendering any material assistance to the establishment, conduct or operation of the particular gambling activity. A person who gambles at a social game of chance on equal terms with the other participants therein does not otherwise render material assistance to the establishment, conduct or operation thereof by performing, without fee or remuneration, acts directed toward the arrangement or facilitation of the game, such as inviting persons to play, permitting the use of premises therefor and supplying cards or other equipment used therein. A person who engages in "bookmaking", as defined in this section is not a "player."


4. "Advance gambling activity." A person "advances gambling activity" when, acting other than as a player, he engages in conduct which materially aids any form of gambling activity. Such conduct includes but is not limited to conduct directed toward the creation or establishment of the particular game, contest, scheme, device or activity involved, toward the acquisition or maintenance of premises, paraphernalia, equipment or apparatus therefor, toward the solicitation or inducement of persons to participate therein, toward the actual conduct of the playing phases thereof, toward the arrangement of any of its financial or recording phases, or toward any other phase of its operation. One advances gambling activity when, having substantial proprietary or other authoritative control over premises being used with his knowledge for purposes of gambling activity, he permits such to occur or continue or makes no effort to prevent its occurrence or continuation.

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Now in plain English:

You cannot be convicted of anything if you get together with friends and spontaneously decide to play poker, as long as you are one of the players and you are not "profiting from the gambling activity" by charging any fees in any shape or form. However, if you post a listing on Craig's List and invite people over to play poker, in your own home, you are "Advancing a Gambling Activity", and you are no longer considered a "player", even if you sit in on the game.

A person may be charged with "Promoting gambling in the second degree" when he "knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity." (Note the use of the word "or", not the word "and"). "Promoting gambling in the second degree" is a class A misdemeanor, which may carry up to one year in prison.

So, you may invite some buddies over for poker (not necessarily strangers through Craig's List) and you may be faced with a charge that carries up to one year. Nice, he!

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If I understand the poster correctly his point is that even if playing poker is legal if you arrange a game by inviting your friends over you are advancing unlawful gambling activity and therefor guilty of promoting gambling. However the definition of "Advance gambling activity" (and also "Profit from gambling activity") which he quotes specifically excludes players. And the definition of player which he quotes says that inviting people to play doesn't mean you're not a player. Under the statute I think it's pretty clear that inviting your friends over to play at your place (no rake or time charge) still qualifies you as a player as defined in the statute.

[giantsrule]

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Ok, so hold'em is just a lottery that looks like poker. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Works for me

[giantsrule]

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because they claimed they were really just a lottery that looks like a slot machine.

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Did they actually claim slot machines to be like lottery but with machines? Thats quite amusing...So a mindless game which is PURE GAMBLING in which you just endlessly throw 10c/25c/$1 coins into a machine and pull a handle is NOT considered gambling.

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It's not that the "video lottery terminals" aren't gambling, it's that they are a form of lottery and therefor the legislation authorizing them is not unconstitutional under the NY State Constitution because the constitutional prohibition of legalized gambling specifically exempts the lottery.

[iceblink]

Hello Marbleman,

At least we've still got Akwesasne, in upstate NY, though I've heard it's terribly run.

Do you know about the Montreal poker forums? Here are the links:

www.playerforhire.com (English)

www.princepoker.com (French)

Used to be lots of tourney announcements on both, until the bust happened. Hopefully things will pick back up again soon.

Alan

[marbleman]

yah akwesasne is such a [censored] hole. plus i always have problems crossing the border, always get car searched and brought inside for questioning.

there are still a ton of clubs open in and around the island, but the games are a bit tougher to find now.