My long-winded e-mail to Empire

[Scotch78]

RESPONSE #3
Dear Scott,

Thank you for contacting customer support.

Empire Poker management decided to close accounts of few inactive players who chose not to play on Empire at all, but constantly claimed its bonuses. All blocked accounts were chosen through very restricted ruling to prevent any active player from being harmed.

Empire Poker is known for its generous bonuses, FreeRolls and prize adding for long now. Empire does not appreciate players who take advantage of this generosity and chose to show up only to cash bonuses.

Each of the accounts closed, seemed to act according to the above and therefore was closed. Players with blocked accounts will be able to cash out their funds within the next two weeks, coordinated with our support team at vip@empriepoker.com.

Empire Poker will take all necessary steps to prevent players from playing only for bonuses on its tables, while keeping its active players satisfied and rewarded for their play through the VIP program, Royal Flush Club, reload bonuses, Tournament Masters program etc.

I hope this helps you to understand the actions of our company and be assured that those players who are genuine and play for the love of the game and not just bonuses will not be affected.

If you have any more concerns or suggestions please feel free to contact us.

Best regards,

Louise
Empire Poker
VIP Players Club
Customer Support Team
www.ep.com

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--Original Message--
From: xxxxxxxxx@aol.com
Date: 5/7/2005 10:37:59 PM
To: vip@empirepoker.com
Subject: Re: Account Closings [#50013762]



The only thing I find suspicious and potentially wrongful in this matter is the behavior of EmpirePoker. You have not only refused to justify alarming actions, but you have now repeatedly failed to treat a supposedly valued customer with respect: replying with formulated responses that do not address my actual concerns is a political tactic, not customer service. Your VIP club is the only product Empire offfers that I like, but cannot receive elsewhere. If this is what I can expect in return for my frequent patronage, what reason do I have to play at EmpirePoker?

Scott

RESPONSE #2
Dear Scott,

Thank you for contacting customer support.

Please rest assured that we are not randomly closing EmpirePoker accounts. The accounts we have closed have been checked thoroughly by our investigations team and found to be consistent with suspicious and wrongful actions that we do not support at EmpirePoker.com.

Players who are not abusing their player privileges need not be concerned about their accounts being closed.

If you have any more concerns or suggestions please feel free to contact us.

Best regards,

Cathy
Empire Poker
VIP Players Club
Customer Support Team
www.ep.com

---------------------
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Win our tournaments and RANK in our TOP 100
Tournament MASTERS TO WIN
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--Original Message--
From: xxxxxxxxx@aol.com
Date: 5/7/2005 10:00:08 AM
To: vip@empirepoker.com
Subject: Re: Account Closings [#50013762]


accounts that were found to practice suspicious and wrongful actions

That phrase has popped up numerous times in this ordeal, and to be honest, it accounts for a lot of my unease. So far as we, the players, can determine, the closed accounts had not violated your T&C. Furthermore, when these people asked for clarification as to what the alleged "suspicious and wrongful actions" were, they were not answered. If the terms and conditions are being violated, please tell us what rule is being broken. If accounts that have not broken the rules (a group that my account hopefully falls into) are being closed, then how can I be confident that my account will not run into trouble?

Scott

RESPONSE #1
Dear Scott,

Thank you for contacting customer support.

The decision to close some accounts was made by our management after investigating accounts that were found to practice suspicious and wrongful actions that we do not support at EmpirePoker.com.

We can assure you that no monies have been confiscated and that players who have written to vip@empirepoker.com have been refunded.

As per our Terms and Conditions we have the right to close accounts.

If you have any more concerns or suggestions please feel free to contact us.

Best regards,

Samantha
Empire Poker
VIP Players Club
Customer Support Team
www.ep.com

---------------------
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Win our tournaments and RANK in our TOP 100
Tournament MASTERS TO WIN
$10,000 WSOP ticket!
Learn more here
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--Original Message--
From: xxxxxxxxx@aol.com
Date: 5/7/2005 2:59:20 AM
To: vip@empirepoker.com
Subject: Account Closings



Though I have not been personally affected by the recent string of activity, it has affected my opinion of EmpirePoker. When I see other customers treated in ways which I would not like to be treated myself, I worry that the same may happen to me. Gambling requires higher levels of trust and confidence than other business endeavors, so a small dose of fear creates a large impression. I chose to play at Empire for a reason though, and I want to feel comfortable keeping my money with you once again. To that end, I hope that you will view this e-mail as the opportunity that I do, and help me feel like a VIP again.

Scott

[MicroBob]

thanks very much for posting this.

At last a real answer.
I posted more of my thoughts on this over in the other thread about the 'real reply from empire' (that won't exactly surprise anyone...jsut repeating what's been said before).


you seemed to have the magic tough and did a great job articulating the concerns at hand.

[jmgurgeh]

I actually was told straight out by Samantha that they were not closing accounts that they found to be unprofitable, which obviously was not a very believable statement then and certainly not now. Congratulations on doing the impossible; I never thought we'd get a straight answer.

[Hoopster81]

BOOM!!

Nice Work

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Congratulations on doing the impossible; I never thought we'd get a straight answer.

[/ QUOTE ]



me too.

[lefty rosen]

Last summer they refused to give me VIP status eventhough I was 2 tabling 1/2 short for about 40 to 50 table hours a week. They lied to me and said that they weren't upping people to VIP status eventhough many hardcore players here got it quickly. Now this I guess my account is on the chopping block..... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[AlexSem]

Bonus whoring is obviously abuse of the system...

THe ones doing it got their accounts closed. What seems to be the problem?


The amount of bitching is phenomenal, honestly. If you can do no better than sit and collect undeserved bonuses, you need to reconsider your decency.

Bonus whoring is destroying the idea of bonuses. People who bonus whore just hurt the site since the site is going to stop offering bonuses because it's getting abused.

The idea is based on the fact that people have a little bit of decency to them and aren't going to abuse the system. It's a lot like throwing garbage in the garbage bins/boxes. Assholes who throw garbage on the floor, it's virtually impossible to catch them.

A lot of society works this way, depending on people not being assholes. So now when assholes are finally told to stop littering on the ground, to stop trying to collect bonuses that are meant to encourage people to play more, you are all crying.

I say [censored] that, you got what you deserved, if your bonus whoring has been refunded, I'd be glad it actually happened, because I'd ever give any money back to those who are attempting to destroy the system.

[MicroBob]

Do you even have a clue?


1 - if they don't want a certain player to take advantage of a bonus then why offer it to them?

2 - If they want to exclude some players that's fine....but why are they doing it suddenly, without any warning, and also without any explanation as to WHY they are doing it (which thankfully they are rectifying to select individuals it appears)

3 - Asking people to contact them...and then that wasn't the right place so they have to call them...and then they can't answer it now so they'll call back in an hour...and then never calling...and then claiming that they tried to call when they never did.

It's BRUTAL customer service.

Then...when an answer is finally given after THEY requested that YOU contact THEM...all they say is 'we aren't going to tell you.'

It's REALLY REALLY awful behavious on their part...when all they had to do was say, "you weren't a 'real' customer there and were just doing the bonuses. so we decided we don't want your business anymore."


There are MANY MANY people here who have said, 'okay...i admit i was just there for the bonuses and didn't play at other times. they don't like that and I understand. If they had just told me in the first place that this would be a problem I would have been happy to do something about it and give Empire more of my business.'

[Tenacious A]

[ QUOTE ]
1 - if they don't want a certain player to take advantage of a bonus then why offer it to them?


[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more Bob. If they're that concerned about losing money on the small percentage of players that abuse the bonus, they should discontinue blanket reloads and offer only account specfic reloads. Even that is stretching it. Take a normal business that offers a coupon--roughly the same idea as the bonus. You may lose a little on a few people, but you write it off as the cost of doing business and make a killing on everyone else. Can you imagine a restaurant suddenly saying "I've only seen you eat here when we are offering a coupon. Management has decided that you will not be allowed to eat here again. This decision is not reversable."

Why in the bloody hell would they close anyone's account for something like this? Online poker is way too competitive at a macro level, let alone the competition at the Party skin level. All I see this doing is alienating players--clearly the ones that have had accounts closed are pissed, but this whole saga is going to do irreparable damage to Empire, ruining their reputation, and costing them tons of non-whores that generate them a lot of revenue.

And wouldn't it be logical that a whore may only be whoring to build a roll? They may not be profitable at the microlimits they play now, but who says they won't be a 30/60 player in a year or two. Permantently banning them now is flat out ridiculous.

[fingokra]

You know some of us don't do this fulltime. We have a "real job." I play about 20 hrs a week at low limits.

The limited amount of time I can play means that with the Party Skin reloads, Paradise, PokerStars, Cryptos, etc. I am always playing off a bonus. I can't finish the bonuses most months. Without a doubt I would qualify as a bonus whore, but so what. I don't see how you can say that I am doing anything wrong, or against their rules.

The only reason for me to play any specific place at this point is for the bonus. If they don't want me taking advantage of the bonus, don't offer it. I will play somewhere else. If no one offers any bonuses, then I will rethink where I need to be.