River Decision - No Brainer?

[Aloysius]

Commerce 3/5 $200

I'm in the CO with about $350. Villain is MP has me well-covered (he had about $5000). I don't have a strong read on Villain, - he is an aggressive pre-flop raiser, but he's been showing down huge hands. Seems somewhat ABC, possibly slightly tricky (he's Asian, we're all shifty [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

Hand in question - EP limps, Villain makes it $35 to go (his standard open) I'm in CO with pocket 9s. I call. BB (total donk middle-aged Chinese guy, will call with any 2) calls. EP folds.

Flop - 10 - 8 - 2 rainbow

Checked to me, I bet $80. BB goes all-in for his last ~$80. Villain thinks about it for a while (seemed a little Hollywood to me) and calls.

Turn is a 6. He checks I check behind.

River is a 3. He bets $200.

Hero? (Also comments on any street welcome, thanks)

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]

River is a 3. He bets $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agressive, possibly tricky... I think he knows about the horrors of bluffing into a dry side pot.

The only trouble is, your description of the all-in BB suggests that he won't necessarily have top pair beat here... despite the fact that he called off his whole stack. This means that Villain might not be "buying the dry side pot" (which obviously has nothing in it)... but instead actually trying to make you fold to pick up the main pot from the BB who has ace-jack or some trash like that.

- Do you know anything more about BB?
- What do you mean by "seemed a little Hollywood" -- was this your isolated impression, or did he have a history of "Hollywood" plays? I think this read is important... the sidepot dynamic makes c/c flop and check turn with a set more likely.

I probably have to lay down here.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

River is a 3. He bets $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agressive, possibly tricky... I think he knows about the horrors of bluffing into a dry side pot.

The only trouble is, your description of the all-in BB suggests that he won't necessarily have top pair beat here... despite the fact that he called off his whole stack. This means that Villain might not be "buying the dry side pot" (which obviously has nothing in it)... but instead actually trying to make you fold to pick up the main pot from the BB who has ace-jack or some trash like that.

- Do you know anything more about BB?
- What do you mean by "seemed a little Hollywood" -- was this your isolated impression, or did he have a history of "Hollywood" plays? I think this read is important... the sidepot dynamic makes c/c flop and check turn with a set more likely.

I probably have to lay down here.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB is a total tard. I've played with him before and he is just a pleasant middle-aged Asian guy who donks off his stack with regularity. Therefore his range is wide on that flop, anything from top pair to overcards to gutshot. I know that, Villain knows that.

I mentioned his "Hollywood" because I also thought my read there was the most critical part of my decision. It was, unfortunately, an isolated event (never really played with him before or seen him do that during the session).

The way he played it, to me, he either had a set or overs. I think with overpair he would have reraised the flop.

My read was he was truly agonizing whether to call with AK or AQ (based on the fact that he thought he might not be ahead of me, but he could be ahead of BB, and could either catch-up or bluff me out).

That is the main reason I called. Stupid? I think this hand ended up being almost entirely read-dependent.

[Leptyne]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

River is a 3. He bets $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agressive, possibly tricky... I think he knows about the horrors of bluffing into a dry side pot.

I probably have to lay down here.

[/ QUOTE ]


The failure to make a CB means something. Could be a miss, could be looking for a c/r. Very important to have a clue here. I think I check behind on the flop, both to keep the pot small and because I don't think my pp can stand a lot of pressure. QT, JT are pretty standard and depending on how many players you could be up against AT, KT.

If you liked this hand well enough to lead the flop and step into a possible c/r then you have to fire the second barrell on the turn or give it up. Your check behind on the turn induces a bluff.

I really can't fault the flop bet because I wasn't there. But you had to think about-have a plan for-the possible c/r. I would think a fold or push would have been good, probably fold and wait for a better spot.

Be a bettor not a caller.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
The failure to make a CB means something. Could be a miss, could be looking for a c/r. Very important to have a clue here. I think I check behind on the flop, both to keep the pot small and because I don't think my pp can stand a lot of pressure. QT, JT are pretty standard and depending on how many players you could be up against AT, KT.

If you liked this hand well enough to lead the flop and step into a possible c/r then you have to fire the second barrell on the turn or give it up. Your check behind on the turn induces a bluff.

I really can't fault the flop bet because I wasn't there. But you had to think about-have a plan for-the possible c/r. I would think a fold or push would have been good, probably fold and wait for a better spot.

Be a bettor not a caller.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks - are you saying on the flop, if I got c/r'ed did I have a plan? Hm - hahah maybe not... I was betting what I thought was likely the best hand. If he c/r'ed me all in I'd probably have to fold. But most of the time, if he does that, I'm beat so I wouldn't feel too bad.

I'm pretty sure that I have to bet that flop tho, check behind doesn't make sense to me (to keep the pot small? that seems weak to me, i like my hand on this flop).

I thought briefly about betting the turn, but since I turned a gutshot, and also thought I had Villain beat putting him on overcards, my plan was to call a bet on a river with no paint / Ace. If I knew with great certainty that I had BB beat, I might've bet into the dry-side pot on the turn to get it heads-up with BB.

i think you need to fire out on the turn, if for anything as a protecting bet for the river. I mean if you put him on overs then why would ur read change when the river came. What about re-popping the flop? If you read him as weak or something like that, then you should come back over the top. there is a chance that he may even fold TPbad kick here to you thinking that you have the best hand. This is a risky play, but if you had a good read on this guy why not?
If you lose the pot, it will make you seem a lot more aggressive than you are and get paid off later.