My first hand in a while...

#1 10-21-2005, 05:32 PM

Sorry I haven't been posting lately, I've been swamped with school work. I finally got to play today and here's a hand I have a question about...

Ultimate Bet 0.01/0.02 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.01.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (10 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Results:
Hero has Kh Qd (straight, king high).
BB has 3c 9c (one pair, nines).
UTG+1 has Th Kd (one pair, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB.

Was it ok for me to take the free card or should I have pushed the pot?

deacsoft · #2 10-22-2005, 12:51 AM

At this limit... I bet that every time.

Felipe · #3 10-25-2005, 01:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
At this limit... I bet that every time.

[/ QUOTE ] why? what will betting accomplish?

#4 10-25-2005, 03:12 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I guess I the books are helping. =)

deacsoft · #5 10-26-2005, 12:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this limit... I bet that every time.

[/ QUOTE ] why? what will betting accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

More options for winning on river or turn (even if you miss you give yourself a chance to win this pot) , larger pot (implied odds at this limit)
Not saying that taking the free card here is wrong. Just that i'll bet it.

SheridanCat · #6 10-26-2005, 11:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this limit... I bet that every time.

[/ QUOTE ] why? what will betting accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking the free card on the turn is fine, however I think betting is better.

The reason is that you may take it down right there. If you miss on the river you're likely beaten, so a bet allows you a bit of fold equity right now. You've been the aggressor, so you have that edge.

I like the free card if you think you'll induce a bluff from an EP player and hopefully be able to raise a bunch of players if you hit. However, other than a little resistance early in the hand, the others have been pretty passive, so I can't really think a bluff is coming.

With this many players in, I'd prefer to bet it and either take it down or build a bigger pot for myself should I hit the hand.

The free card play is a great tool, but I think in this particular situation you have great equity with plenty of opponents who will pay you off.

Regards,

T

turaho · #7 10-27-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The reason is that you may take it down right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a 0% chance of all three opponents folding to a single turn bet.

[ QUOTE ]
If you miss on the river you're likely beaten, so a bet allows you a bit of fold equity right now. You've been the aggressor, so you have that edge.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't hit on the river, you're absolutely beaten, unless you think all your opponents (including the one who bet into you as the preflop raiser) can't beat K high. Betting this turn also means inevitably betting the river and hoping everyone else folds since your hand has little showdown value.

[ QUOTE ]
With this many players in, I'd prefer to bet it and either take it down or build a bigger pot for myself should I hit the hand. The free card play is a great tool, but I think in this particular situation you have great equity with plenty of opponents who will pay you off.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 8 clean outs to the nuts (four aces, four nines). Your overcards are worth about 3 outs. 11 outs gives us a little less than 25% pot equity. So even if you bet and all players call, your bet is not even EV neutral.

In a situation like this, I would take the free card every time. At nano-limits, opponents take the craziest hands to show down. There's no way you're winning this hand unless you hit on the river.

Felipe · #8 10-27-2005, 09:38 PM

The above post is EXACTLY what I wanted to say, Thanks dude.

<ul type="square">[*]Not enough equity to bet.[*] at 1c/2c - 99% will call (made up figure...) [*]You don't have a hand in need of protection[*]Perfect illustration of "the free card play"[/list]

SheridanCat · #9 10-28-2005, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I think you have a 0% chance of all three opponents folding to a single turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

At .01/.02, okay, I have no experience at that limit. At .5/1 or higher, you have equity.

[ QUOTE ]

Betting this turn also means inevitably betting the river and hoping everyone else folds since your hand has little showdown value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if the fold equity is 0% on the turn, it's going to be just slightly over 0% on the river at this limit.

[ QUOTE ]

You have 8 clean outs to the nuts (four aces, four nines). Your overcards are worth about 3 outs. 11 outs gives us a little less than 25% pot equity. So even if you bet and all players call, your bet is not even EV neutral.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a very slight -EV situation if you take out all fold equity. But if you add in the implied odds if you hit, I think a case can be made for betting the turn. You'll likely get all to call on the turn (remember fold equity is 0%), so there's 4 big bets, and you'll get at least a couple callers on the river for another couple big bets.

My brain is fried from playing PL Omaha last night, so I'm just not up to the math this morning, but I think this is worth betting - even in the no-fold'em nanos.

I admit to not really paying attention to the limits on this one. I just assumed the players were not insane. My apologies for that.

Regards,

T

Isura · #10 10-22-2005, 02:15 AM

Looks good.