|
|
|
|
#1
10-24-2005, 08:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
Raising only cost you one more small bet, but will:
1) make a bigger pot for when you hit and tie in the others. 2) Possibly give you a free card. 3) sometimes get you 3-way where you might win with a top pair type hand. 4) It will give you a more dangerous image (metagame). All in all raising gives you more options 
|
|
#2
10-24-2005, 09:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
Thanks for clarifying that! Your post makes complete sense. Going back to Brier-Ciaffone, this is looking less and less like an auto-fold (as they suggest) to me.
|
|
#4
10-24-2005, 09:54 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
this is interesting. it doesn't seem right but you do make a compelling argument.
some things that go against it are that you likely make it a more shorthanded pot where you're still going to need to make the best hand. the dead money does make up for this though. also your pot equity probably isn't so great. but it's gotta be at least fair share. as I said, you make a really compelling argument. it just doesn't make sense right away.
|
|
#5
10-24-2005, 11:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
[ QUOTE ]
your pot equity probably isn't so great. but it's gotta be at least fair share [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this a contradiction? I believe T9s will have more than fair share equity on average.
|
|
#6
10-25-2005, 01:39 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] your pot equity probably isn't so great. but it's gotta be at least fair share [/ QUOTE ] Isn't this a contradiction? I believe T9s will have more than fair share equity on average. [/ QUOTE ] Jesus! I love your aggressiveness, however, in the BB?! Maybe we should tone it down just a notch and save that move for the Button or CO? How do you continue after the flop hits you a little bit?
|
|
#8
10-25-2005, 06:54 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Jesus! I love your aggressiveness, however, in the BB?! [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Suppose you have Td9d on the button. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I'm all for raising when you maybe don't have the best hand if it's justified, but this is a spot for a call, and not a fold or a raise. 3-betting MAY get not only the blinds, but also the three limpers to fold and now you're heads-up against the cut-off guy. That's not what you want, especially since his cut-off raise is invariably more than a steal raise, given the limpers ahead of him, and even if he's just buying the button, it's not the EV move, given the cap-risk and everything else. By simply calling, you may lure in the blinds AND keep in the limpers, having a nice 7-way pot for 7BB going into the flop and you have a nice hand with position on the field (even though your relative position is horrid, given that you are first to act after the PF raiser). I have to go with call > fold > raise (but the last two are pretty much almost equally bad). Barron Vangor Toth BarronVangorToth.com
|
|
#9
10-25-2005, 11:34 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
[ QUOTE ]
Raising only cost you one more small bet, but will: 1) make a bigger pot for when you hit and tie in the others. [/ QUOTE ] Aren't you the one who will be tied to the pot? If the flop comes 9 or 10 high and you get action, your likely beat, so your best flops will be ones that flop draws and you will be a dog to make you hand against top pair, etc. [ QUOTE ] 2) Possibly give you a free card. [/ QUOTE ] 'Cept we prepaid for our flop free card, I'd hardly call that a bargain. [ QUOTE ] 3) sometimes get you 3-way where you might win with a top pair type hand. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but our best flops are likely to be the ones where we flop draws and don't we want lots of opponents so more players will be around to pay us off on the river? If we flop a flush or straight draw don't we want lots of opponents so when we ram 'n jam the flop we are getting value as dog on our raises? [ QUOTE ] 4) It will give you a more dangerous image (metagame). All in all raising gives you more options [/ QUOTE ] I prefer more money to more options. Give me lots of opponents and I can't be losing too much equity in this hand by calling. Give me few opponents and one with an overpair and I can be taking much the worst of it. Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV Qs Qh 711384 51.90 656462 47.89 2908 0.21 0.520 Kd Jd 389764 28.43 978082 71.35 2908 0.21 0.285 Tc 9c 266698 19.46 1101148 80.33 2908 0.21 0.195
|
|
#10
10-25-2005, 12:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser
Well, I could be wrong - several responses seems to point to that. A few comments on your post though:
[ QUOTE ] Aren't you the one who will be tied to the pot? If the flop comes 9 or 10 high and you get action, your likely beat, so your best flops will be ones that flop draws and you will be a dog to make you hand against top pair, etc. [/ QUOTE ] You will be tied into a 5 way pot anyway with odds to call the flop on a gutshot. Exept now the pot is less likely to be raised in front of you and you might even get a free card to draw to your gutshot. [ QUOTE ] 'Cept we prepaid for our flop free card, I'd hardly call that a bargain. [/ QUOTE ] This would be true if that was the only reason to raise, but since it is not our free card only costs a fraction of a sb. [ QUOTE ] If we flop a flush or straight draw don't we want lots of opponents so when we ram 'n jam the flop we are getting value as dog on our raises? [/ QUOTE ] There will still be upportunities to ram and jam the flop and more importantly, ram and jam when you hit, since opponents will have a harder time putting you on a hand.
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
