Just a bad beat right?

[droolie]

*This is a crosspost from another thread*

There is a such thing as charging flush draws!

This thread has begun to take things the other direction and the growing idea that someone might think there is no such thing as charging flush draws bugs me. The time to charge flush draws is on the turn when they aren't making money off all the bets that are going into the pot like they are on the flop. With multiway action on the flop all the money that goes in profits flush draws. It is therefore true that you are not charging them anything as they are in fact profitting. This is not necessarily the case when the pot is HU or on the turn ie when the action is HU, 3-way or even 4-way. At this point flush draws would love to see the river cheaply or for free. They aren't folding due to the pot odds but they don't want to put any money in unless the action is 3-way or better on the flop or 5-way or better on the turn. When they don't profit charge 'em I say! Charge 'em!

[mvoss]

I'd bet the turn, but the c/r looks got too. I'd also just call the river.

[tor]

*grunching*

I think you played it fine.

[TomBrooks]

I think you played that correctly Jedi.

Here's a hand I played last night in which I had A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for the nut flush draw and some top pair chances. I pumped the flop and checked the turn with the intention of checkraising as I had picked up a gutshot there.

Had I not picked up the gutshot, I figure I would have needed all 3 callers to justify adding to the pot as I would be about a 3.5 to 1 dog, right? With the gutshot 2 callers looks +EV to me as I figure about 14 1/2 outs making me just over a 2 to 1 dog. A T on the river could give AK or K9 a higher straight though.

Along the lines of the Original Post, from the point of view of BB who had J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for a set, should he not have 3-bet the turn with the likely best hand at that time? He'd be giving the next two players 7 1/2 to 1 to call, good enough for OESDs, but not gutshots. Then again, if he did that he would run the risk of me capping, which I would do if he didn't fold both the other players. Should that matter to him, or should he reraise with the likely best hand at that time?

Party 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

River: (18 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 21 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Jc Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
UTG has Qh Ad (one pair, queens).
MP1 has 9d 9h (one pair, nines).
Outcome: BB wins 21 BB. </font>