How bad is this blind defend on the flop?

thesharpie · #1 06-13-2005, 05:07 AM

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises...

Planning to bet a non broadway turn, fold to a 3 bet.

Check fold until I have a read or the board isn't as crappy for me?

How would you play A7 here if you had no real read apart from the table is steal happy and mostly weak tight postflop?

dozer · #2 06-13-2005, 05:19 AM

how can you be so sure villain is on a steal from that position?
What kind of hands do you think villain will steal with if he is in fact stealing?

Also, does villain give up on his steals easily?

thesharpie · #3 06-13-2005, 05:38 AM

No read, that's why I think I should check fold until I get a read.

Jakesta · #4 06-13-2005, 05:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No read, that's why I think I should check fold until I get a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea. That is not a great flop for you. The only worse flop I can see is an Ace high one.

MrEngenic · #5 06-13-2005, 05:58 AM

Well, this goes under the name check raise bluff. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If he calls, he has you beat and you have little chance to improve. It's impossible to answer this since we don't know what took place in previous hands. I bluff like this occasionally but only if I feel it has a great chance of success, i.e he steals alot, I have defended and won many pots from him etc. It's good to vary your bluffs, sometimes bet the flop, sometimes CR the flop, sometimes the turn etc.
I'm not sure this is the best flop though. It either hit him with a draw or a pair or completely missed him.

You can advertise by showing your hand if he folds! If he doesn't steal very often you want him to steal even less. If you show him that you will play back at him with good hands and bluffs alike, he will usually get uncomfortable and reduce his stealing to premium hands = you know where you stand when he steals and you won't have to defend as much.

I see now that it was MP3 who raised. People don't usually steal with crap like T7, T8s in MP3. My post refers to when CO or button steals and you know they could be stealing with Kx, Ax, down to T7.

thesharpie · #6 06-13-2005, 06:03 AM

He doesn't necessarily have me beat if he calls the flop. Many raising hands could've missed the flop, although alot of them would've picked up a draw which is even more reason not to play on as they'll probably see the river and might not even give us a free showdown.

dozer · #7 06-13-2005, 06:20 AM

In blind defence situations IMO having a read is the most important, without a read you should just play ABC. Which makes this a fold on the flop or pre-flop.

The only reason I would call preflop is because in tight games players are very predictable. If this were a low flop I would bet it and fold to a raise against a weak tight opponent. In tight games most of your winning will be from bluffing your oponents out of hands, and from straight up agression in HU situations. Which means betting a lot of flop wether you miss or hit.

einbert · #8 06-13-2005, 06:26 AM

I would usually just check/fold this flop. It's a pretty bad flop for you and pretty good for stealing hands.

parappa · #9 06-13-2005, 06:40 AM

I use this play to try to figure out if the raiser has overcards. This flop is too scary for me to try it and a ton of the hands MP will raise with connect with this flop enough to call the c/r and turn bet, so I check/fold here. Right idea, wrong spot imo.

imported_The Vibesman · #10 06-13-2005, 09:54 AM

Is the table so tight that this is a blind steal? He still has to go thru CO and Button. Knowing that I tend to give him credit for a half-decent hand and would probably check/fold the flop.

If I did consider this a possible steal - say the table is very tight and he knows button and co will likely fold to a raise - then I would lead the flop rather than check-raise, and give him a chance to fold right there. If he is weak-tight after the flop he may be disappointed the steal didn't work and just give it up if he does not hit the flop. I think I could fold to a raise, or fold the turn unimproved, given your read on the table. The only thing that would worry me in that situation is what to do on the river if he calls the flop, and calls a blank on the turn. There I would start to think he is calling down a pair of tens or pocket 9's. check and hope he checks it through, I guess.

I think I would play A-7 the same way in this particular situation, and still have the same problem on the river if called to that point, and still plan on dropping to any raise.