1-2 PLO hand

[DJA]

Game is 1/2 PLO... very loose pre-flop

I have about $300, which is 2nd at the table and I am UTG.

I am dealt A A 8 6 double suited...

I make it 4 to go...
I have 2 reasons for doing this... I don't want to give away my hand, and if someone raises me back I can probably make it a big number to go... What do you think?

There are 6 callers to me (pretty typical) The button has me covered. Everyone else has around $100-$200

There is pot is $27 or something (one of the blinds folded, but I can't remember which one)

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Flop: 8s 6s 6...

I flopped the second nuts...now what? I am 2 to act. I decide to go for the check raise because there are so many opponents behind me. Sure enough a player bets $10, he has about $180 in front of him after the bet. The button cold calls the $10. Now I am pretty sure I am ahead, but there are only so many 6's in the deck... what is the over caller calling with... I decide to make it $50 to go... If I am raised back I will probably let it go. What do you think?

The original bettor calls me and the button folds. I would guess the button had the flush draw, but I am not sure. Maybe flush draw over pair or something. Or maybe a really weak 6... and the bettor has 8 8.

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Turn: 8s 6s 6 [8]

Ok, the other guy (og) doesn't have 8 8, I have the nuts, and og is probably drawing near dead to his flush or 6 or something... what do you bet? He has $130 left and the pot is $130 or so...










I bet $50.00, and he folded... Should I have bet less?

Thanks In Advance,

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Don't bet at all.

The guy most likely has a 6. Unless he also has a pocket pair above 8, he's drawing dead. If he does have the pocket pair, he's only got 2 outs. He might have the straight flush draw, again giving him only 2 outs. It is highly unlikely he has the case 8, which is the only way he's drawing very live at all (e.g., with 89TJ he has 9 outs).

By checking, he might bet his 6, figuring you'll fold your 6. He might bet a flush and/or straight draw as a bluff. He might check with all of those, but be willing to call a river bet if he catches his hand.

The only reason to bet now is if you think he'll call with his flush/straight draws, as well as with his 6xyz hands, but fold those hands on the river when they miss.

I can't say which type of player he is, obviously.

I would tend to check because I think you're more likely to induce a bluff now as well as get a call on the river, than if you bet now. But some opponents will be more likely to pay if you bet now.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[DJA]

Interesting strategy... I would not have even considered not betting, but in hind site (after reading your post), it is obviously very valid... The player was a very poor pot limit player IMO... He would always check the nuts... and smooth call a lot no matter how vulnerable his hand was... Then he would wine when you "sucked" out on him on 5th street. He would "semi" bluff when he is pretty much drawing dead (ie a flush draw on a paired board)... I learned this more as I was able to watch him through the night.

In hind site I may have gotten an extra $50 out of him had I waited until 5th street to bet if he checks it through... He may have even tried to make a move on 4th street...

Would you have raised the max preflop with double suited A's? I would have had I been doing that more often, but I was playing pretty passive pre-flop, often raising a little to build a pot if I hit, but it was more of a raise a little to induce calls rather then raise the max to drive people out. Also, I was UTG, so I am unlikely to drive too many opponents out for $7, but if I raise it to $4 and someone raises say to $10, I can make it $50+ to go BTF. That will fold a lot of opponents.

What do you think about folding to a reraise after betting $50 on the flop? I was currently against 2 opponents and I had to put them on something.

I am trying to get away from playing weak tight, and I think this is exactly what the $50 bet was...

Thanks for your response,

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Raising preflop in PLO is tricky. You talk about making a small raise and if somebody else makes it 10, you can make it 50 (and then fold some opponents). The only problem with that strategy is when 50 is less than half your stack.

If you and I each have 200 or more, and you do the reraise to 50 out of position, I can beat you senseless by calling the last 40 if we're heads-up. However, this is only true if I know for a certainty you have AAxy. Even though your other two cards are unknown, and the suit and suitedness of your aces are unknown to me, if I flop two pair or better I'll be pretty sure I'm well ahead of you at that point. This means I can get the next 150 or more into the middle good, and always fold when putting more in is bad.

More so than holdem, it's important not to announce you're holding AA in omaha. Simply put, it's harder to draw out on AA in holdem than in omaha.

This means either not making that raise to 50, or also doing it with other hands, with hands like 6789 being excellent alternatives.

Also, position is more important in PLO than any other game I've played more than occasionally.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

Did you say you'd bet $50 and fold if raised??
You better make damn sure that you know your opponent well enough to make that statement and play. I know a lot of squeaky tight players who would raise there if they had A-6 or K-6 so don't be so quick to let the hand go.

[DJA]

At this point there are 2 opponents... You have to put them m both on something. There are only so many 6's in the deck, so they must have something else... What?


Also, although I had only $250 remaining after my raise, I still think this is considered a large stack 125 X the BB... I think I will have a better situation then this later... after I know a litte more about the players.

I could easily be wrong making this fold, but it may cost me my whole stack to find out.
Just My Thoughts,

u raise with AA86 early, flop comes 866.

not often dreams come true, but yours has... You bet maybe 2/3 pot to pot. A bet that says I have the best hand, this is a common bet made in this situation with a preflop raiser playing a large overpair in this situation. The reason this bet is so often made is that with two 6 s out 2 pair is usually the best hand.
Now anybody with a 6 is going to give action, and some people with certain draws may try to force you off your perceived 2 pair.
All that is left is luring them in.

and next time u consider folding after that possible raise of your 50 bet. consider how many hands can beat 86 on an 866 flop

Poster: Anonymous
Subject: Re: 1-2 PLO hand(this 1 is so easy it is funny)

u raise with AA86 early, flop comes 866.

not often dreams come true, but yours has... You bet maybe 2/3 pot to pot. A bet that says I have the best hand, this is a common bet made in this situation with a preflop raiser playing a large overpair in this situation.
(Is it? You'd bet an overpair into 6 players?)

The reason this bet is so often made is that with two 6 s out 2 pair is usually the best hand.
(Against 6 opponents? Please join my game)

Now anybody with a 6 is going to give action, and some people with certain draws may try to force you off your perceived 2 pair.
(will they?)

All that is left is luring them in.

and next time u consider folding after that possible raise of your 50 bet. consider how many hands can beat 86 on an 866 flop
You've utterly missed the point Derrick is making.

Who can give reasonable action here?
Suppose it goes call then call of his 50?

One opponent obviously has a 6 - what can the other guy have?

Only 88.

You'd have to be very careful there in a sensible game.

When you've played a bit more PLO you'll be a bit less concerned with generating a massive pot with the second nuts.