How much do you stick to the preflop guide?

AcidJazz · #1 09-07-2005, 06:35 PM

I had KQo and had 3 bets against me and I wanted to raise or at least call (and always would have). Is this generally a horrible idea and should I really stick to the guidelines in the faq? I'm sure if I'd bet hands like that like that that I could have swings because of it but who knows =\

Paxosmotic · #2 09-07-2005, 06:40 PM

I don't at all, but I play like an idiot preflop. I play a ring game preflop exactly like I play a tournament final table preflop. The two are not the same, yet I do it. Do not be like me.

KQo is always a good fold facing a 3-bet preflop no matter what your style.

Eeegah · #3 09-07-2005, 10:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't at all, but I play like an idiot preflop. I play a ring game preflop exactly like I play a tournament final table preflop. The two are not the same, yet I do it. Do not be like me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pax's Guide to Poker:

1) Raise 84o in UTG+1.
2) Get 3-bet by me; call.
3) Flop 2 pair.

Anyway, I don't deviate much from SSHE's tight chart if I'm in a full ring game; oddly enough, whenever I feel like doing so I always seem to have to fold to a raise ahead anyway. In fact, the times when I do deviate work to make me even tighter: if it's folded to me in MP2 and I've got some lousy small pocket pair like 22 then I won't hesitate to muck and pick a better fight. I wouldn't call even a single raise with KQo under normal circumstances, however.

Paxosmotic · #4 09-07-2005, 10:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't at all, but I play like an idiot preflop. I play a ring game preflop exactly like I play a tournament final table preflop. The two are not the same, yet I do it. Do not be like me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pax's Guide to Poker:

1) Raise 84o in UTG+1.
2) Get 3-bet by me; call.
3) Flop 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good time to debut a post I've been looking to do for a little while. I call this Paxosmotic's Guide to Tilting Eeegah. Here's some highlights from our recent matches.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Paxosmotic is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Paxosmotic raises, Button (Eeegah) 3-bets, 2 folds, Paxosmotic calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Paxosmotic checks, Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Paxosmotic checks, Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic raises, Eeegah calls.

River: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Paxosmotic bets, Eeegah calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Paxosmotic has Qh 6c (two pair, queens and sixes).
Eeegah has Jc Qs (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Paxosmotic wins 10.75 BB. 

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (3 handed) converter

Preflop: Paxosmotic is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button (Eeegah) raises, 1 fold, Paxosmotic 3-bets, Button (Eeegah) caps, Paxosmotic calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Paxosmotic checks, Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Paxosmotic checks, Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Paxosmotic bets, Eeegah calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Paxosmotic has 9s Kh (flush, ace high).
Eeegah has Jh Jd (two pair, aces and jacks).
Outcome: Paxosmotic wins 9.25 BB. 

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (2 handed) converter

Preflop: Paxosmotic is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Paxosmotic posts a blind of $0.50.
BB (Eeegah) raises, Paxosmotic (poster) calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic raises, Eeegah 3-bets, Paxosmotic caps, Eeegah calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic raises, Eeegah 3-bets, Paxosmotic calls.

River: (12 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Eeegah bets, Paxosmotic raises, Eeegah 3-bets, Paxosmotic caps, Eeegah calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

Results in white below: 
Paxosmotic has 5c 7s (four of a kind, sevens).
Eeegah has Ks 5s (full house, sevens full of kings).
Outcome: Paxosmotic wins 20 BB. 

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Paxosmotic is MP1 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Paxosmotic raises, 4 folds, SB (Eeegah) calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Eeegah checks, Paxosmotic bets, Eeegah raises, Paxosmotic 3-bets, Eeegah calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Eeegah checks, Paxosmotic bets, Eeegah raises, Paxosmotic 3-bets, Eeegah calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Eeegah checks, Paxosmotic bets, Eeegah raises, Paxosmotic 3-bets, Eeegah calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Paxosmotic has 2s 9h (two pair, nines and twos).
Eeegah has Kc Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Paxosmotic wins 17.50 BB. 

I seriously love this game. I really, really do. What's frightening is that everything except for the 92o is me playing my A game.

hemstock · #5 09-07-2005, 11:00 PM

What did you have here?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero calls, MP3 :#A500AF(paxosmotic)/ raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, paxosmotic raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, paxosmotic bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, paxosmotic bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Paxosmotic · #6 09-07-2005, 11:01 PM

You really, really don't want to know.

DavidC · #7 09-07-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't at all, but I play like an idiot preflop. I play a ring game preflop exactly like I play a tournament final table preflop. The two are not the same, yet I do it. Do not be like me.

KQo is always a good fold facing a 3-bet preflop no matter what your style.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was going to say, you can call IF you want, but make sure you use lots of lube, or you'll have a tough time walking around the next day.

(Sorry, I'm tired... I should probably not post for a while.)

numeri · #8 09-07-2005, 06:42 PM

Are you saying someone who acted before you 3-bet? If so, this is instamuck.

The starting hand charts are a great starting place. You won't be missing out on much to stick with them initially. I've only started deviated in certain instances. Sometimes the players you're against and the relative position you have on them dictates play that is different from the SSHE starting hand guidelines. Until you can recognize those differences, stick with the guide.

AcidJazz · #9 09-07-2005, 06:45 PM

It got raised twice before it came around to me.

Instamuck then? I'm going to stick to the guide as it at least puts some discipline in me. It's difficult to sometimes though :/

numeri · #10 09-07-2005, 06:49 PM

Yeah, KQo is in bad shape against a 3-bet. Against an unknown, I generally assume AA-TT, AKs/o, and maybe AQs. Can you see why it's instamuck?

EDIT: Also, have you checked the FAQ? There's a lot of good info there as well.