How did you move up beyond 10/20 6 Max...any pointers?

[climber]

Hi All,

The last post I made like this was in the zoo. It was last december and I had just turned my free $10 in chips at Royal Vegas into 2k by grinding the .05/.10 and .10/.20 and finally the big game--the .25/.50

Anyways, long story short some neccessary cashouts left me with $300 at the end of January. I've made about 26k since then and have recently been beating the 10/20 6 Max for 2.88BB/100 over my last 32k hands. So I'm clearly new to the game and the sum total of my playing (maybe 120k hands) still constitutes a small sample size but I've been running well and its all been working out.

I currently have a little over 10k in my playing roll and am wondering where to go from 10/20 6 Max.

continue to grind 10/20 6 Max?
15/30 full?
20/40?
30/60?

I have gotten where I am by moving up agressively and moving down when I run bad. I've lost half my roll probably on 5-6 occassions (maybe 3 times trying to move to the 5/10 6 max, a couple before that and once in a combined 15/30-10/20 downswing). I know what its like to build a roll from scratch and do have the ability to stop playing if I'm tilting or running extremely bad.

The easy answer to my question used to be play the 15 full as soon as your roll allows and you feel comfortable.

I only ask because I see these guys on my buddy list playing much higher than they use to now that the new bigger games are present. Guys I used to routinely own at 10/20 are now consistently sitting 20/40 and 30/60. The games def feature more good players but there seems to be a pretty high donk ratio to balance it out.

I've played 2600 hands at 30/60 and maybe 500 at 20/40. I have been a slight winner but thats a nothing sample size. I also played most of those hand when my playing roll was closer to 20k.

Anyways I was playing the 30/60 the other day with my 10k roll and ran into a few bad beats in a row and dropped 70BB. I was pretty scared and was going to stop if I hit 5k (was already at 4k) but the table was extremely soft and I managed to end up only down 500 or so. Obviously I don't have a safe roll for the 30/60. However the games are so good at times I really want to sit.

Do I just need to grind the 10/20 for 3 more months and move to the 30/60 with a 30k roll or whould I be taking shots now?

I'm leaning towards declaring the 30/60 offlimits until I have at least 200BB and limiting myself to 10-20 and only palying 15-30 or 20-40 if a particular table warrants sitting. Any thoughts? Anything I should watch out for?
What was your experience moving past the 10/20 6 Max?

[mc1023]

long post, skimmed it but um

if your doing 2.88BB at 10-20 should only take you a good solid 120 hour month to have the roll for 30/60 (on 4 tables at an average of 350 hands/perhour).

I put in a solid month of 10-20 built my bankroll from 20k to 40k before going to 30-60 if that's what you wanted to hear.

[bicyclekick]

I say stick to 10/20 6max. Great games, good money, not big $ swings. 15/30 and 30/60 plays very similar these days...if you can handle it broll wise the 30 game is the place to play...but is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the 10/20 6max game...which means the 15/30 game probably is similar. I dunno for sure though as I haven't played it recently. I say just stick to 10/20 6max til you have a lot bigger roll.

[helpmeout]

Quit jumping up with a small roll. 10k for 30/60 is not enough even if you are only playing a small session.

Build your roll up to at least 500BB for 15/30 more if you are going to be tempted to play 20/40 30/60 when your buddies are there.

You want to have about 25k in your roll before you start following your buddies into the bigger games. Its just too easy to lose a few thousand in a short amount of time.

Dont be fooled by thinking that the 30 game is anywhere near similar to the 15 game either. The 30 game usually has one really bad player and the rest are at least on average as good as yourself if not slightly better. The 15 games average player is much weaker even the so called TAGs are weak.

[jdock99]

You are up over 26k for the year and only have a 10k bankroll. Based on your description of how you started so small and your bankroll management it does not sound like a professional, so if that is true I think if you want to move up and take a shot bigger games you need to stop raping your poker bankroll for non-poker related things. I think Mike Caro talked about this extensively in one of his books/articles/seminars. Then again maybe you are better off spending the $$ enjoying life a little rather than losing it all taking shots at bigger games.

[Ezcheeze]

I'm not sure if you're still playing on royal vegas but if you play party 10/20 6max with those stats then I think its a good idea to take a shot at either 15/30 or 20/40 as long as you'll move back after a short bad run and then try again later.

I STRONGLY suggest NOT taking a shot at 30 60. Become comfortable at 20 40 first because the 30 60 on party is significantly tougher. Its kinda wierd and there are several reason but in general 30 60 is much more aggressive (in general a bad thing especially when taking a shot) and the quality of play by all players there is much better than at any lower limit on party.

My view on taking shots is pretty liberal compared to most. I just think it's basically the best and fastest way to get better so if you care at all about improving your game then its totally worth it as long as you don't jump too far too fast and move back fast if it goes bad.

[Roswell]

[ QUOTE ]
I STRONGLY suggest NOT taking a shot at 30 60. Become comfortable at 20 40 first because the 30 60 on party is significantly tougher. Its kinda wierd and there are several reason but in general 30 60 is much more aggressive

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed this as well, can you elaborate?

[Ezcheeze]

I think basically the best players naturally gravitate to the highest limit available, while of course the worst players do not. While it is true that alot of "Rich fish" are attracted to the highest games, the really bad ones don't last long and the other ones tend to improve to the point where they are very aggressive but will stay lay down obvious losers. They are still losing of course since they don't understand things like "odds" and won't laydown hands unless its very obvious they are beat but the point is they are much better than the passive players from lower limits.

Against players who are extremely aggressive you tend to lose the maximum when you lose and you may or may not win the maximum when you win depending on your style and how good you are. This leads to incredible swings and reduced win rates.

The biggest fish are the passive players, save for the truly insane maniacs that make occasional but brief appearances.

[climber]

Thanks a lot everyone for all the advice...

Basically I got out of it that i should not play 30/60 no matter who is sitting.

I should play more 10/20 and build the roll--dont you love it that putting in a 30 hour week is "really buckling down and working hard?" lol.

Stop raping the roll for non poker-related items like new computer/laptop/2001FP/digital camera/TV/honeymoon/nicer apartment/furniture/trip to South Africa,etc.

Take shots at 15/30 and 20/40 once the roll is more like 15k.

Hopefully I'll be in this forum more frequently in a couple months. Thanks again guys.

[Xhiggy]

I'm going to go against the norm and say that it's okay to take shots at a higher limit on a thinner bankroll, but you absolutely have to have the discipline to drop down if you lose a little. Taking three 100 BB shots, and then rebuilding it at 10/20 if you lose it is the same thing as taking an extended 30/60 shot. However, the advantages are that, if you get on a good run at 30/60, then you'll have the roll to play it for more profit. Good luck whichever way you go.