Poor etiquette?

[blumpkin22]

Live 20/40 Stud at the Commerce

Great game. A few ridiculous fish and the rest mostly mediocre regulars. A few decent players occasionally, usually waiting for the 30 game.

As it was getting past 4 in the morning, I had already decided this was going to be my last hand.

The 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] brings it in, the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls, and I look down at (Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I complete. The T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] cold call behind, and it's five of us to fourth street. Great. Just what I wanted. A multiway pot with split queens.

The 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] catches the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and is high. He quickly bets and the the next guy with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] catches the 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and calls. It's up to me and I have (Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Digusted with the donk bet from the ace I think about folding but decide there's too good of a chance I have the best hand or will make the best hand. So I raise. The rest of the field clears out.

5th:
P1: (xx) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
P2: (xx) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Me: (Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

My board is getting scarier. Moreover I just caught an ace so now I'm quite confident I have the best hand. I'm high with the A-Q, I bet, and both call. By the way, at this point I'm only worried about P1. He could have the case A, or even something like a strangely played KK in the hole. I think P2 has something stupid like a wheel draw. He's definitely a chaser.

6th:
P1: (xx) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
P2: (xx) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Me: (Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet again and both of them call.

On the river I hit nothing, the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I decide to bet and probably fold to a raise. P1 thinks for a while, says, "Did you miss everything?" I say nothing, and after about 15 seconds he calls. P2 folds.

I say, "One pair." He says, "One pair of what?" I say "Queens" as if it should be obvious as I turn over my hand. He says, "That's no good. I have aces." Why the hell would he say "One pair of what?" if he has aces and it's impossible for me to have aces? Personally I think it's poor etiquette there. Not as bad as slow rolling, but pretty close.

[jon_1van]

If you knowingly do this it is wrong. But alot of people don't think "I have Aces, so I have the best pair" They think "I have a pair...I hope it's better than his pair". Just like lots of people dont think "when I call what do I have to beat" They think "Ohh..I have Qs I call".

so depending on who did this you shouldn't worry about it

[benwood]

Jon Allen may be right,but I think it's a lot more likely that the guy's just a b'hole with bad manners.Sad to say,there are a lot of them around in the poker world.

Ive only played live stud once, and have no idea about the etiquette. It seems to me that the guy wanted to know what your hand was. Thats the only reason id do what he did. Again, I know nothing about the etiquette, but it seems to me that if you announced your hand as "a pair of queens" then this never becomes an issue.

[Andy B]

If the other guy is oblivious, he might not be aware that you couldn't also have Aces. I've seen folks who play $30/60 regularly lose sight of the fact that there are four Aces in the deck.

If he was aware of what he was doing, it is poor etiquette. So what? If you're going to let stuff like this bother you, don't play live.

The river bet was probably not your best move.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
The river bet was probably not your best move.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's one of those "bluff value bets" in that I could get called by a smaller pair or I could get him to fold aces. He was pretty close to folding. I'm also very unlikely to get raised, and it'd probably be safe to fold in that case.

If I were to check/call, I think I might have to make a digusting overcall if P1 bets and P2 calls, just because P2 was so retarded that he would probably call with any pair there unless there is a bet and a call (or raise) in front of him.

But most likely it would get checked through. It might be the case that check/folding is the best option since I didn't improve.

[Andy B]

I wasn't for a moment suggesting that you fold the river.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't for a moment suggesting that you fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. I know that, Andy. You never fold on the river. So I assume you check, hope it gets checked through, and call one bet but not two.

[Andy B]

You assume correctly. And I'll have you know that I folded on the river at least twice yesterday.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
You assume correctly. And I'll have you know that I folded on the river at least twice yesterday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ladies and gentlemen, hell has just frozen over.