Flop nut flush draw, Turn top pair?

frozenhops · #1 04-19-2005, 02:22 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB :#A500AF(boarder52)/ (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($33.75)
SB ($40.3)
BB Villian ($44.6)
UTG ($45)
Hero ($49.97)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $1.75, Villian calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $3, Villian raises to $10, Hero calls $10, SB folds.

Turn: ($29) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villian bets all-in, Hero calls $32.60.

River: ($61.60) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $61.60

Felt the SB had a feeler bet. Hand history a few hands ago put the villian raising a short-stack all in on the turn with just middle pair in a multi-way pot. I felt this opened up his range of hands to include just a single king or pair in addition to set/small flush/pair and draw.

Do you fold on the flop? Fold on the turn?

soLit · #2 04-19-2005, 02:27 PM

I think hes scared of the flush, and I would guess he has 2 pair or a set, A possible baby flush could also be his holding and he doesnt want the real flush to hit. I fold on the turn, hes obviously protecting something that beats you. Unless he loves his kings?

fortextreme · #3 04-19-2005, 02:36 PM

I would have liked to see you get a better flop to make that call. If the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] had hit or if you had a gutshot straight draw also you might have justified the call. But with only $19 in the pot and it costs you $10 I think you fold. Also what if the SB comes back over the top? Then you're probably forced to throw good money after bad with you're flush draw.

But since you called on the flop you had to feel that he didn't hold anything better than a pair. Since you've now hit your Ace I think you have to call hoping your ace is good or you improve on the river.

frozenhops · #4 04-19-2005, 04:28 PM

My thinking (on the turn) was along the lines of what fox had wrote. Obviously I would not have called the turn bet if I didn't feel my ace had a decent chance at being good, or at the very least giving me a few extra outs if he had 2pair.

If the SB came over the top AND the BB subsequently called, this would in theory give me correct odds to chase the flush correct? The pot would have been around $95 and I would have had to put in $30ish for 3:1.

Another odds question. As per my weak flop call. I understand putting in $10 into a $19 is bad odds, but I felt I could get the rest of his $32ish (being that I had observed BB being aggressive) if I had hit on the turn. Are these implied odds (5:1) good enough to make the call? Or do I not actually make most of that profit as he might be scared of a flush/higher flush.

QuasimodoFace18 · #5 04-19-2005, 05:09 PM

I agree with what you did. You called him with the nut draw, and if you're putting him on King big kicker then your good. Plus you see people on PP overvalue hands huge! good play.

TrailofTears · #6 04-19-2005, 05:14 PM

I don't like the flop call, but the turn call is a no-brainer, especially with your read. My guess is he had KxQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and you took it down.

-Trail

frozenhops · #7 04-19-2005, 05:23 PM

You give him too much credit trail [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

He ended up having k,10 o, no hearts, which was the weakest hand he could possibly have had in my range. Strange play by him, as he would have figured if i'm calling either I have the a of hearts, or I have the flush or a set. Either way he's losing and had to bluff at it

BigEndian · #8 04-19-2005, 05:41 PM

I fold this flop when raised unless I feel I can get the full value out of his stack (very tough to do with a four flush on the board).

On the turn, I would fold if I thought he could not do this with one pair often enough to justify the call. Most often, you are against two pair, a set or a baby flush against a typical live player. You're getting less than 2-1 with a 4-1 ass-catcher when you make the wrong decision. How often do you think you are ahead on this turn?

- Jim