Flop action?

[Solami17]

You have to bet here!

[heykev]

I like to lead out and call here on flop and put in check raise on turn. If bb is willing to raise flop he is probably going to bet turn.

[BarronVangorToth]

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Ditto. In a live, East Coast mid-limit game, I think it's much more likely that a monotone flop gets checked around than online or West Coast players realize.

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It may be more likely to get around in Foxwoods than at the Commerce - but with this many in there, at this specific game, with a raise from the BB, I don't see it getting checked around as, far more often than not, the BB is going to continuation bet ahoy when checked to, barring it being one of the very particular people who would shut down sans a spade / a big pair in their holding.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com
that was a sentence and a half

[sfer]

Well, there are other reasons. One, by betting into the likely raise you make your hand look like anything but a flush, and you increase the chances that a semibluff with the Ace of trump or a 1-pair hand gives you tons of action. Two, someone mentioned the possibility of folding the 9/T of the suit, which is quite good. Three, betting will let you 3-bet with the best hand much more often than checkraising will let you 4-bet with the best hand. Four, betting is fun.

[BarronVangorToth]

Agreed. There are lots of reasons to bet out. My answer is defaulting to what I'd do in the Joe Sixpack Foxwoods 20 game. There are times when I would certainly agree betting out is correct. Here, given the late night description, I think you're going for pure pot building and no-other-spade praying, hence the check-raise / 3-bet / cap.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

[Victor]

look left. if hes gonna bet, go for the cr. if you cant tell, just bet. you cant go wrong putting money in with the best hand.

[mike l.]

bet into the bb and hope he raises giving people the chance to fold hands with the Ts and 9s.

[mike l.]

"With the hand having 6 players to the flop, I think players are less likely to think their 9s or 10s is going to be enough to take this down."

so you think most 20-40 players are going to readily make that same analysis and commonly fold those cards on the flop for one bet (presumably from the bb)? think again.

[BWebb]

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"With the hand having 6 players to the flop, I think players are less likely to think their 9s or 10s is going to be enough to take this down."

so you think most 20-40 players are going to readily make that same analysis and commonly fold those cards on the flop for one bet (presumably from the bb)? think again.

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If they are definitely not going to fold for one bet, how sure can we be they will fold for two? (This is really a question, not a smart ass remark, for I don't normally play this high.)

My earlier post doesn't make much sense. I was posting at work and trying to hurry through it. I don't like a bet here because we are looking to fold only two cards, the 9 and 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], should they be out. The A and Q are obviously not going anywhere no matter if its one or two bets to them. The chances of this getting checked through are slim because:

1) We have a flop that very likely hit a preflop raising hand.

2) It's six handed.

3) It's monotone. This flop hit somebody and most people, good or bad, are aware enough to bet this flop if they hav e a top pair type hand for fear of the free card. I don't see how the strategy to bet the flop, which is counting on a raise from BB, can be supported with the idea that if we check it could get checked around. True, we are definitely getting money in if we bet, but most of the argument for leading out is for the BB to raise to protect our hand. Plus, I want to get the most money in this pot, not just some. I've never played in an East Coast 20/40 game, but I just don't see THIS flop getting checked through.

IMO, we flopped a monster. True, a bet out might get the 9-10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to fold if BB raises. However, I think passing up on the opportunity to checkraise the field in order to try and get two cards to fold is giving up too much value.

as much as i love to check raise i think you have to bet and bet hard...to much chance of it being checked and another spade hitting. Worst case is you get raised or reraised and you lose one small bet (assuming you can get away from this) rather than the two bets you lose if you check raise and get reraised