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  #1  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:24 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

10/20 6max PP 5handed.

CO openraises, buttton threebets.. dont know alot about them, well assume they suck...
sb folds, and i decide to call 2 in BB w/ 77. CO calls.


flop comes K54
i check, CO bets, BN call, i call.

turn comes T
i check, CO bets, BN call, i checkraise, CO folds, BN call

river is a 4
i check intending to call


all streets, what do u guys think?
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:32 PM
Drontier Drontier is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

i dont really like this. I think I c/r the flop. By c/ring turn you either knockout COs [censored] hes donking with or his PP or King pair, none of which he is folding. BN seems to be holding AJ AQ or PP 66-QQ. Since players never fold pairs, and I don't see you having a lot of value on the turn I don't like this raise. Having called the flop, I prefer to call the turn(or fold), and call but not overcall a non AQJ river.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:42 PM
disjunction disjunction is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

I fold here. I won't call because I'm slightly ahead or way behind, and I don't like donking either.

Having said that, with the particular silliness that is the Party 10/20 right now, I think your play is neutral EV versus folding. Just don't try it in any other game ever [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:43 PM
bicyclekick bicyclekick is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

horrible.

When the CO donks into the pfr on that board he almost always has at least a pair like 99 or KJ or something. It is possible he has a smaller pp or something like A5 and this worked out for you but in general this is a stupid way to play the hand. Also not helping is the button, who at worst when he calls the turn has something like AQ which has a gazillion outs to improve so vs both of them you're in mucho trouble.

Fold the flop, since you didn't, fold the turn, calling is far better than raising and calling the river is moronic as well. check fold the river.

I'm sure you didn't play this hand cause you're much better than this, but this is a total fish way to play a hand from the flop on.
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2005, 10:51 PM
disjunction disjunction is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
horrible.
Also not helping is the button, who at worst when he calls the turn has something like AQ which has a gazillion outs to improve so vs both of them you're in mucho trouble.


[/ QUOTE ]

Button almost definitely either has AQ or AJ, with a slight equal possibilities of a higher PP or a lower pair.
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2005, 11:47 PM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
horrible.

When the CO donks into the pfr on that board he almost always has at least a pair like 99 or KJ or something. It is possible he has a smaller pp or something like A5 and this worked out for you but in general this is a stupid way to play the hand. Also not helping is the button, who at worst when he calls the turn has something like AQ which has a gazillion outs to improve so vs both of them you're in mucho trouble.

Fold the flop, since you didn't, fold the turn, calling is far better than raising and calling the river is moronic as well. check fold the river.

I'm sure you didn't play this hand cause you're much better than this, but this is a total fish way to play a hand from the flop on.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think we can pretty squarely put the button on an A high type gutter hand and I think we can pretty accurately put the CO on something weak most of the time. I'd expect him to checkraise better hands. it's hard for the CO to call, being squeezed in between a preflop 3-bettor and a turn check-raiser. getting it HU with the button in a pretty big pot would be a coup. it's definitely nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. it's risky and it takes a pretty big investment so it has to work about 1 in 6 since he's getting about 9.5-2 when it works. he has 2 outs when behind and faces 10 outs when ahead and gets it hu

and you say AQ has a bunch of outs. ok, so he has about 30% equity. when it's his turn to act on the turn, the pot is 8.25 BB. so 30% isn't that much considering it's a big pot. also, he can pretty safely fold any A, Q, or J river so there are no reverse implied odds.

the flop i think i agree is a fold. he's getting 12-1 but with a bet and a 3-bet, i don't think we'll see 2 unpaired non-AK/KQ/KJ hands enough to prospectively peel there.

the river i think is a good check-call. what could he possibly be value betting? he didn't raise the flop, he didn't raise the turn, and now flawless has shown more strength than the CO, and he suddenly finds a value bet? if he had a set we would've heard from him by now. my only question is whether a bet is better than a check to induce a bluff.
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  #7  
Old 12-17-2005, 11:50 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
horrible.

When the CO donks into the pfr on that board he almost always has at least a pair like 99 or KJ or something. It is possible he has a smaller pp or something like A5 and this worked out for you but in general this is a stupid way to play the hand. Also not helping is the button, who at worst when he calls the turn has something like AQ which has a gazillion outs to improve so vs both of them you're in mucho trouble.

Fold the flop, since you didn't, fold the turn, calling is far better than raising and calling the river is moronic as well. check fold the river.

I'm sure you didn't play this hand cause you're much better than this, but this is a total fish way to play a hand from the flop on.

[/ QUOTE ]
wow.
calm down dude, are you drunk?
obviously i disagree with alot of what u said, but no time now...
hopefully some others will chime in, then. i will give some further thoughts.
BTW/ dont thinhk iom offended or anything, im not. no worries... i can take it... hahaa.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2005, 12:05 AM
TStoneMBD TStoneMBD is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

i agree with bk on every part
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2005, 12:27 AM
Schneids Schneids is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] it.

Super high variance. About 0EV. IMO. But win or lose, it makes you look like a fukkin retard, which is awesome.

I think it's close btwn check/calling and betting the river. Some of these guys who suck are going to call with AQ or AJ on the river but will check behind.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2005, 12:28 AM
Schneids Schneids is offline
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Default Re: 77. kinda funky. PP10/20.

You don't think 99 or 88 will bet/fold the turn, while AJ/AQ will bet call (remember these guys likely suck)?
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