DON'T KILL TOOKIE

[Exsubmariner]

OK, I'll try again. It's complicated. Stan Williams case in particular is important because it involved a man who was supposedly "rehabilitated." It was reviewed again and again by the courts through numerous appeals, by the Governor, by the Supreme Court and in every review it was found that the death penalty should be upheld.

It reinforces my beliefs from earlier exposures to the case through reading, holloywood, and the opinions of law enforcement officers I know that the actions of Stan Williams on death row were simply the actions of a man who was desparately trying to save his own life. He was not in fact rehabilitated. The testimony of guards on numerous occassions was that he still had contact with and directed gang operations. This man had two faces. You said yourself he was responsible for negotiating a "truce." How do you think he did that if he did not have intimate knowledge about all the aspects involved?

I believe that it was his secret hope to one day be released from prison and resume control of the gang he founded. The childrens books, etc were simply means to this end. I think the justice system saw through it no matter who he had fooled from the outside.

Is that better?

[PoBoy321]

It's not much better, because everything you had to say was based on assumptions and wild conjecture.

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Richard,

"Isn't that the idea behind the idea of rehabilitation."

The criminal justice system is not and should not be about rehabilitation. It is about punishment and protecting society.

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Anyone that has anything to do with criminal justice would disagree with your first sentence.

[bocablkr]

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Alright, now that you've completely evaded my question, how about you just answer what I asked you. Why do you care whether or not Stan Williams was put to death?

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I believe in vengeance. The victim's families wanted him put to death and that is all that matters. They are the only ones with any say in this matter. If someone kills someone you love and you want them spared then that is your choice. Don't question the victim's families right to think otherwise.

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Alright, now that you've completely evaded my question, how about you just answer what I asked you. Why do you care whether or not Stan Williams was put to death?

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I believe in vengeance. The victim's families wanted him put to death and that is all that matters. They are the only ones with any say in this matter. If someone kills someone you love and you want them spared then that is your choice. Don't question the victim's families right to think otherwise.

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If we start doling out punishment in order to placate the emotions of a handful of people, we as a society are in deep doo doo.

[PoBoy321]

Fair enough, an honest answer. It has nothing to do with wanting to save the state money, or deterrnig future criminals, or sending a message that murder is unacceptable, it is simply and purely a way to exact revenge.

Now, out of curiosity, if the victim's family believed that he should be drawn and quartered, or burned alive, or some other similar punishment which we've deemed cruel and unusual, would you still not be opposed?

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, an honest answer. It has nothing to do with wanting to save the state money, or deterrnig future criminals, or sending a message that murder is unacceptable, it is simply and purely a way to exact revenge.

Now, out of curiosity, if the victim's family believed that he should be drawn and quartered, or burned alive, or some other similar punishment which we've deemed cruel and unusual, would you still not be opposed?

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Come on - you know the answer to that. I do not believe in cruel and unusual punishment. Lethal injection is a very humane way to die vs. being shot in the back with a shotgun (like Tookie's victim).

[Richard Tanner]

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Richard Tanner,

What should the "system" have done to rehabilitate Jeffrey Dahmer?

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1) Call me Cody, it's what I go by [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
2) Sorry I think Jeffrey is beyond saving, it's life for him, at the cost I outlined in my original post. I'll give $.02/year to keep him off the streets.

Cody

[PoBoy321]

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Fair enough, an honest answer. It has nothing to do with wanting to save the state money, or deterrnig future criminals, or sending a message that murder is unacceptable, it is simply and purely a way to exact revenge.

Now, out of curiosity, if the victim's family believed that he should be drawn and quartered, or burned alive, or some other similar punishment which we've deemed cruel and unusual, would you still not be opposed?

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Come on - you know the answer to that. I do not believe in cruel and unusual punishment. Lethal injection is a very humane way to die vs. being shot in the back with a shotgun (like Tookie's victim).

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So you're saying that the victim's families AREN'T the only ones who have a say in the matter. So what is keeping other outside influences from determining that he would be more useful alive than dead?

[Richard Tanner]

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It's not Tookie's fault he's being killed (as opposed to serving a life term) and those that care for him are paying a penelty as well.
Cody

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Are you serious????

The fact that he committed a crime, was convicted in an ostensibly fair trial, and received the death penalty, was not his fault?

WOW.

As for the argument about all of the other murderers, rapists, etc.. Their sentence should be carried out, no matter what it is. If they have grounds for appeal, then appeal. If they want to use DNA evidence, great. If they have been given a trial, appeal(s), and a CHANCE for clemency, then society has done its job.

I will say that people can change. Rehabilitation and redemption should be encouraged. But there has to be a line at which we, as a society, say "No". Did this case cross that line? I'm not sure, as I do not know all of the facts of the case.

But I hope at some point, people will realize that accountability is not a bad thing. I hope that people realize there are actions and deeds that society considers crimes, and those actions and deeds have consequences.

Let us remember the victims and their families a little bit more than we remember the convicted criminal.

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Yep totally 100% Serious. It's his fault he's in prison for the rest of his life, but not to die (it doesn't matter that when he commited the crime, he knew it was punishable by death, this is about the penelty).

And before someone whips this question out, if it were my mother and father killed by Tookie, I would love nothing more then seeing his ass in jail for the rest of him life. If he later spoke out against his crimes (I realize he never confessed to the murders, but about gang life) I might just shake his hand.

Cody