QTo favorite over 2's

watching wpt with mike and VVP up here in canada yesterday. probably wasn't on in USA and it probably was old.

they had QTo as favorite over 22. i thought pairs were always favorites (even over suited connectors, while this is one-gap offsuit).... the one thing to notice though is that the pair doesn't cut into straight-making ability.

is this correct?? i can not seem to get the same odds from different odds engines...

i know i've seen this before in a book or online (for free). what's the best source for going thru every situation heads-up??? is it harrington??

[PaultheS]

Pairs are always somewhere around 50/50 with overcards, but they aren't always slight favourites. Many suited and/or connected overcards are actually slightly stronger headsup. For example, from twodimes.net:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9d 8d 894863 52.26 782248 45.68 35193 2.06 0.533
2d 2h 782248 45.68 894863 52.26 35193 2.06 0.467

And, like you said, QTo vs 22:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Td Qh 863394 50.42 828520 48.39 20390 1.19 0.510
2d 2h 828520 48.39 863394 50.42 20390 1.19 0.490

Note that if the QT doesn't cover 22's suits then it's 0.501 vs 0.499.

As for examining heads up situations, I would recommend twodimes.

thanks paul!!!

i can't seem to get the different evaluation engines to agree... i guess i just think it's interesting as to whether you are technically a favorite or not... but it's arguable that 51/49 and 50/50 are not too different.

wonder why these engines don't agree.

and one engine said QJo was worse than QTo against 2's. i don't see that. obviously the fact that the straight is constrained at the higher end, but i'd rather take the open-ended nature of it.

[bobman0330]

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thanks paul!!!

i can't seem to get the different evaluation engines to agree... i guess i just think it's interesting as to whether you are technically a favorite or not... but it's arguable that 51/49 and 50/50 are not too different.

wonder why these engines don't agree.

and one engine said QJo was worse than QTo against 2's. i don't see that. obviously the fact that the straight is constrained at the higher end, but i'd rather take the open-ended nature of it.

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QJ can make a straight with AKTxx, KT9xx, and T98xx. QT can make one with AKJxx, KJ9xx, J98xx, 9876x

Pocket 2's against Q10o is a slight favorite to win. It is around a 55% favorite

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Pocket 2's against Q10o is a slight favorite to win. It is around a 55% favorite

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no.

[uuDevil]

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wonder why these engines don't agree.


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If you are doing a Monte Carlo simulation, the accuracy of the result depends on how many deals are simulated. If too few deals are simulated, the error may be larger than the difference between the equity of the hands.

Hi. If I had to be in a preflop race to the river with one of these hands, I would take the pair of twos with NO hesitation! On coinflip type races I would always prefer the one currently in the lead preflop. I agree that the odds favor the QTo very slightly. But that QTo (no matter how imposing it looks) HAS to improve to win...and the pair can do the job on its own. (This assumes that the board does not produce 4 of a kind.) Have a nice day!

[mackthefork]

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watching wpt with mike and VVP up here in canada yesterday. probably wasn't on in USA and it probably was old.

they had QTo as favorite over 22. i thought pairs were always favorites (even over suited connectors, while this is one-gap offsuit).... the one thing to notice though is that the pair doesn't cut into straight-making ability.

is this correct?? i can not seem to get the same odds from different odds engines...

i know i've seen this before in a book or online (for free). what's the best source for going thru every situation heads-up??? is it harrington??

[/ QUOTE ]

22's is a small dog to QTo 49.5/50.5 against QTs it is 47/53, JTs is a 54/46 favourite against 22. If a 2 is known to be dead then QTo becomes a 56/44 favourite.

Regards Mack

[fnord_too]

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Hi. If I had to be in a preflop race to the river with one of these hands, I would take the pair of twos with NO hesitation! On coinflip type races I would always prefer the one currently in the lead preflop. I agree that the odds favor the QTo very slightly. But that QTo (no matter how imposing it looks) HAS to improve to win...and the pair can do the job on its own. (This assumes that the board does not produce 4 of a kind.) Have a nice day!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge error in thinking. Do you also prefer the 22 against 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] with a board of 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] because the 9T still has to catch?