Canterbury 8/16, Preflop question

[dcarlc]

9 handed. This game is loose as they come.

5 limpers to me in hijack, I have pocket 9's, If I limp last 2 are coming in with almost any 2. If I raise I've got a chance at getting the button. Cutoff and button are regulars(more money than game). No matter what the action the blinds are coming in(Raise, Reraise no matter). More on hand a little later.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

You have to raise. Your hand is not better than that you want as few people as possible to compete with you for the blinds/ pot. QQ-KK-AA you could have limped for your reasons. QQ probably marginal.

[Evan]

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QQ-KK-AA you could have limped for your reasons.

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No way.

[sy_or_bust]

I disagree. This is a huge multiway pot, where cutting down opponents is wishful thinking. You raise, but the primary reason is the pure profit from set value. If you can nab the button or catch a favorable non-set flop, that's nice too, but sets are most important, and most profitable, against a loose-passive field.

And you realize that limping AA/KK/QQ here gives up at least 7 small bets preflop, right?

You should raise preflop for value. Any pocket pair figures to win more than its fair share in an 8-10 handed pot, so it can raise profitably. Larger pairs win more often unimproved. The primary value of low-mid PPs now derives from sets and full houses, which is why 22 can raise here also. AA/KK win so often UI that sets are less important, but this has nothing to do with not raising. These hands are even more valuable to raise.

[peterchi]

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You have to raise. Your hand is not better than that you want as few people as possible to compete with you for the blinds/ pot.

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I'm not really clear on what you're trying to say. We already have 5 limpers. I think that I would raise because it's fun, but I don't see what's so wrong with limping along for set value. You're gonna dislike about 70% of the flops that come, right?


[ QUOTE ]

QQ-KK-AA you could have limped for your reasons. QQ probably marginal.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this part at all.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Sorry, my bad. I misread OP, for some reason I thought folded to hero, of course QQ-AA should be raised in this scenario.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Think it may involuntarily qualify my first post for worst advice ever. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It's going to be at least 8 handed raise for value.

[BigEndian]

It doesn't matter. Limp sometimes, raise others.

The one maybe non-obvious reason to raise is to give yourself a chance to check through on a nasty board and get 4 swings at a set.

But really, this is not a ball-buster.

- Jim

[Aces McGee]

I raise. Getting the button would be nice. Also, while in many cases the five limpers will collectively hold at least one on the each of the cards that outrank your nines, it's possible that they don't, and if someone behind you holds it and you knock them out, you've increased your chance of winning the pot. You might also knock out some hands that could make weird straights or two pair to your overpair or set if the flop comes rags.

-McGee