Donkbet This

toss · #1 09-25-2005, 05:00 PM

SB is 71.76/27.06/1.49 over 100 hands. For some reason he folded the last few hands I raised PF and followed on the flop and turn. Button is 35/6/.49 over 80 hands.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises...

Easy raise?

#2 09-25-2005, 05:04 PM

Deleted my stupid initial reply.

Not sure about this, that's a pretty scary card. I think raise is probably good, but we have to fold to a 3-bet.

toss · #3 09-25-2005, 05:04 PM

I bet the flop.

Hybrid_11 · #4 09-25-2005, 05:06 PM

meh .... without the queen of spades in your hand I'm not to fond of this move unless you can get it heads up with sb and get button to fold. What are you doing if button 3-bets? calls? and likewise if sb does.

eviljeff · #5 09-25-2005, 05:08 PM

yep, and check that river

shant · #6 09-25-2005, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
meh .... without the queen of spades in your hand I'm not to fond of this move unless you can get it heads up with sb and get button to fold. What are you doing if button 3-bets? calls? and likewise if sb does.

[/ QUOTE ]
The move is better without the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Hybrid_11 · #7 09-25-2005, 05:23 PM

Can you explain why that would be then. I cant understand why that is because if either caught the king one of your 2 outs is counterfeited and you have no redraw to the 2nd nut flush without the queen of spades in your hand.

Argus · #8 09-25-2005, 05:30 PM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
Can you explain why that would be then. I cant understand why that is because if either caught the king one of your 2 outs is counterfeited and you have no redraw to the 2nd nut flush without the queen of spades in your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
The move is better without the queen of spades because you want to see the river as cheaply as possibly if you have Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in your hand. Getting 3-bet and being forced to call is pretty tragic. You can fold to the 3-bet without it, and see if you hit your flush for just 1BB with it.

shant · #9 09-25-2005, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain why that would be then. I cant understand why that is because if either caught the king one of your 2 outs is counterfeited and you have no redraw to the 2nd nut flush without the queen of spades in your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't want to get 3-bet and have to call with my flush outs. I can raise this and hopefully get it heads up and if I'm 3-bet here I can fold.

Carmine · #10 09-25-2005, 05:40 PM

I'm not following. An overcard that also happens to complete a flush draw hits. SB bets out into two players one of which is a PFR and you raise. Is the benifit here that you are going to CD anyway so by raising you will take a free SD and possibly fold a weak [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] button may be holding and SB will fold a weak K, possibly because of prior reads? I think the description you gave of SB was that he folded the river after your PFR in other hands (wasn't 100% clear with the way you worded it).

If this is your reasoning though (again I have no idea), it would come down to why SB folded in previous hands. Could it be that he is just a fish that would never be capable of folding K2 in that spot.