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#41
09-12-2005, 05:11 PM
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Re: Brilliance or idiocy. What\'s your pick?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the way you played the hand at all. [/ QUOTE ] You're in agreement with apparently everyone else. [ QUOTE ] PF. Raise to isolate and for information. You are lucky another player didn't call, and then you're AK would play much worse after you whiffed the flop. [/ QUOTE ] Disagree. This was towards the later stages of the tournament. Most peoples stacks were fairly short. I didn't expect anyone else coming in without pushing. I didn't expect anyone to push without AK or a pair given the pfr and my call. If someone pushed I'd get to see the original pfr's action before I made my decision. [ QUOTE ] ATF This is a horrible flop for you. There are almost no hands that villain could have that you are beating. When villain leads the flop you can't raise him out of the pot. You probably have 9 outs (2XA,3XK,4XT). The hearts are not that scary because it is unlikely that hero would not raise with AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] BTF, about as unlikely as hero having AJ beat IMO. Villain misplays the flop bet and gives hero 6:1 implied odds when AK is hero's most likely holding (needing only 4:1 to call) A pot sized bet would have been much better. [/ QUOTE ] I agree he priced me in. And I agree that I'm behind here. And I know it. I don't necessarily agree with villain putting me on AK. Most people push pf with AK here. I've successfully avoided him putting me on a solid range with my preflop call. [ QUOTE ] The turn: Villain could not have picked a better card for the turn. He misplayed and should have moved in; instead he bets 1/4 of the pot on a highly coordinated board and gives hero 7:1 implied odds to call the turn. [/ QUOTE ] EXACTLY. My play confused him and encouraged him to make a mistake. That is the sole reason why I think this hand is interesting. I didn't take the normal line that 95% of the people on these forums would take. My unorthodox approach had him unsure on what to do. Because of that I ultimately took the pot away from him. [ QUOTE ] The river: Villain makes another mistake and doesn't realize that he is committed. If he misplayed it this way all along he should bet T24,000 on the river too. Villain checks. Hero makes an incorrect bluff at the pot, since villain should call with any holding here given the pot odds and his tournament situation (continuing with 6.75XBB). Villain incorrectly folds. [/ QUOTE ] Villain should call here. You're right. But a lot of times they won't. You'd think they would but they don't. I've done it several times successfully. Not saying it will work everytime. Not even saying it will work most times. But it does have it's applications and it does work. At this point I've gotten so into villains head with my strange play he doesn't know what to think. He's thinking to himself that I couldn't possibly play all this way along without a hand that he could beat. By the river his AJ which looked fantastic on the flop now doesn't look so good. A heart draw fits, AA fits, KK fits, Qx fits. The only thing that fits that he can beat is KJ or a lower pair and he can't understand why I'd bet those on the river when he's priced into the call himself. He knows that I know that. With his tournament life at stake, he folds. [ QUOTE ] All in all a poorly played hand by both parties. Hero's river bet can only be construed as a good play in the sense that he suspected that villain would make the wrong play and fold; even then its dubious at best. [/ QUOTE ] You have your opinion and I have mine. Given the flop and his continued action, I prefer my chosen line over any other. 
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#43
09-12-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: Brilliance or idiocy. What\'s your pick?
Moo, while I understand your reasoning, and it certainly is a tricky play, I don't like giving my opponents odds to call. This means that I haven't caused my opponent to make a mistake, I'm the one making the mistake.
I still prefer a pre-flop push in this spot. The table hasn't gotten down to the final three, so there's significant jumps in money as you progress (I assume). As such, you can push your opponent out of the hand and take the chips risk-free, and give yourself an even larger edge, rather than risk being outdrawn and paying off your opponent. While it certainly worked for you this time, I think in most cases you will wind up getting called and losing those chips.
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