SSH made me 60 bucks!

silkyslim · #1 09-27-2005, 09:11 PM

table is a dream, no one has any clue. anyone ditch this on flop? turn ok to get more bets?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

River: (18 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

Nick C · #2 09-27-2005, 09:16 PM

I would in fact fold on the flop. Calling would be my second choice, and at this table it might be what I'd do, since it looks like you can count on a bunch of calls behind you and no raises.

In any event, you gotta love getting cold-called in three(!) places after you turn trips. I guess everyone behind you had A5o or something and couldn't let go of the overcard + gutshot.

ep510 · #3 09-27-2005, 09:20 PM

Fold flop. Your hand isn't great. SB likely has you beat. You don't know if you'll get raised behind you. Even if your hand is good at this point, any card on the turn can kill your hand. With this many (horrible) players in the pot, I doubt, in most situations, that you'll kick out overcards with a raise anyway. Usually, you'll get a couple callers behind you, and a blank will fall on the turn. What do you do then?

silkyslim · #4 09-27-2005, 09:21 PM

as soon as i raised i realized a call would have been better since i cant protect against these fools. and one cold called the turn with a 4.

silkyslim · #5 09-27-2005, 09:22 PM

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Fold flop. Your hand isn't great. SB likely has you beat. You don't know if you'll get raised behind you. Even if your hand is good at this point, any card on the turn can kill your hand. With this many (horrible) players in the pot, I doubt, in most situations, that you'll kick out overcards with a raise anyway. Usually, you'll get a couple callers behind you, and a blank will fall on the turn. What do you do then?

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i dont think my hand is best, i was drawing to my 5 outs and i thought 7-1 was good enough with these players who give huge implied odds

Argus · #6 09-27-2005, 10:33 PM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
as soon as i raised i realized a call would have been better since i cant protect against these fools. and one cold called the turn with a 4.

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Protecting your hand isn't getting opponents to fold. Protecting your hand is forcing your opponents to chose between folding or making an unprofitable call. I doubt that all three players behind you had odds to call two cold both times, so you did indeed protect your hand without them folding.

As for the flop raise, I think it's pretty close between raising and folding (raising is my choice), with calling being the worst of the three options. If you think you can get paid well when you hit then you should raise, and this table demonstrated that you can indeed get paid well. On a tighter table or in a slightly smaller pot I'd give up. As is, nice hand.

PS SSH has made me a bit more than $60; you ought to give it more credit.

HolyBejeesus · #7 09-28-2005, 02:57 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
as soon as i raised i realized a call would have been better since i cant protect against these fools. and one cold called the turn with a 4.

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Protecting your hand isn't getting opponents to fold. Protecting your hand is forcing your opponents to chose between folding or making an unprofitable call. I doubt that all three players behind you had odds to call two cold both times, so you did indeed protect your hand without them folding.

As for the flop raise, I think it's pretty close between raising and folding (raising is my choice), with calling being the worst of the three options. If you think you can get paid well when you hit then you should raise, and this table demonstrated that you can indeed get paid well. On a tighter table or in a slightly smaller pot I'd give up. As is, nice hand.

PS SSH has made me a bit more than $60; you ought to give it more credit.

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This is wrong. Hero is clearly not ahead, and raising the flop in EP with bottom pair is pretty bad. When you are drawing to 5 outs in a relatively small pot, you don't really have a hand to protect. My order is fold > call > raise.

Also, raising the flop cuts your implied odds in half. The concept of implied odds centers on getting a lot of bets when you invest only a few. By raising, you are investing twice as much money and winning the same amount if you do hit.

donny5k · #8 09-28-2005, 03:05 AM

The goal of the flop raise isn't to "protect your hand" it is to thin the field to increase your pot equity. And this concept should only be applied if:
a. Opponents don't coldcall 2 constantly.
b. The pot is big.
c. You are in a position where you can take a free card on the turn.

The pot is somewhat small so I fold in that position with many people to act behind me. I wouldn't ever raise into that many people either. Calling isn't terrible but your king cannot be given a full 3 outs so I think it is unprofitable given the fact that it very well might get raised behind you.

silkyslim · #9 09-28-2005, 03:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as soon as i raised i realized a call would have been better since i cant protect against these fools. and one cold called the turn with a 4.

[/ QUOTE ]
Protecting your hand isn't getting opponents to fold. Protecting your hand is forcing your opponents to chose between folding or making an unprofitable call. I doubt that all three players behind you had odds to call two cold both times, so you did indeed protect your hand without them folding.

As for the flop raise, I think it's pretty close between raising and folding (raising is my choice), with calling being the worst of the three options. If you think you can get paid well when you hit then you should raise, and this table demonstrated that you can indeed get paid well. On a tighter table or in a slightly smaller pot I'd give up. As is, nice hand.

PS SSH has made me a bit more than $60; you ought to give it more credit.

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if they have a better hand than I do, they can cold call as much as they want regardless of pot size. I raised to get them to fold. Since they wont fold, i like calling so i can see the turn for one less bet. but you are right about the actual definition of proteecting.

silkyslim · #10 09-28-2005, 03:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The goal of the flop raise isn't to "protect your hand" it is to thin the field to increase your pot equity. And this concept should only be applied if:
a. Opponents don't coldcall 2 constantly.
b. The pot is big.
c. You are in a position where you can take a free card on the turn.

The pot is somewhat small so I fold in that position with many people to act behind me. I wouldn't ever raise into that many people either. Calling isn't terrible but your king cannot be given a full 3 outs so I think it is unprofitable given the fact that it very well might get raised behind you.

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there are many glaring misconceptions present in your argument. do u see why?