Betting time and other online tells in SNG's

[eniven]

Now, most advice I've read about online poker mentions that you shouldn't read too much into online tells such as the time it takes a player to act. This makes sense to me.

However, I'm also usually careful not to give away tells in terms of the time it takes me to bet/check/fold etc... I generally do this by trying to take approximately the same amount of time to make my selection. Usually I know what my action will be before the action gets to me and I try to wait a consistent few seconds most times before choosing my action.

However on occasion I alter my betting/checking time in order to ellicit a specific response from my opponent.

For instance:
Say there are three players left in a 10+1 including myself, and I am in the big blind.
The button calls, the SB folds and I have a junk hand and check.
The flop comes down and I've flopped a gutshot straight draw with little else in the way of possibilities.
I'm a medium stack and the pot is small, so I don't want to bet at this flop, but I would like to see the next card.
In situations similar to this, I may often let my timer run down until I have about 1/4 the time I started with before checking.

Often times I find that even aggressive opponents will check behind me, giving me a free card thinking that I may be going for the check-raise. Many opponents will notice if you suddenly alter your action time in this manner. If your opponent does bet instead of checking, you can just fold, and in this case, nothing is lost.

In cases where I try this and get a free card, which does not complete my draw, often times I find I can bet the turn regardless and the opponent will fold because I've tricked them into thinking that I have a hand anyway.

Now, I'm not saying I make plays like this very often, but I do find that they can be successful when used sparingly in certain circumstances.

Does any one else have success in altering your action time or putting out other tells designed to ellicit certain actions from your opponent? Examples?

Thanks,
Eric
PS: I'm a bit of a newb, granted, but I did a search and couldn't find anything on this topic.

[lastsamurai]

yeah watch out...sometimes the player has to go pee..

[bigt439]

I didn't read your post because it is too long, but to sum up, yes, I think these things are somewhat important. I'm more concerned with projecting an image with my betting time than I am with monitoring others, but they're both marginally relevant.

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't read your post because it is too long, but to sum up, yes, I think these things are somewhat important. I'm more concerned with projecting an image with my betting time than I am with monitoring others, but they're both marginally relevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also didn't read your post and agree.

One thing that I think is important is not putting too much (any?) stake in people taking a long time to act. This can be connection problems or a distraction in real life. However, when a player acts quickly, it's pretty safe to assume that their action required little thought.

[splashpot]

I didn't read the post either, lol. I agree it has some value, even if it is minimal. If a user takes more than 3-4 seconds though, it could mean a whole slew of things. I mainly focus on projecting an unreadable image myself. Whether I bet, check, or call, I try to take about 1-2 seconds every time no matter what. If I'm folding, I don't bother.

Well, I almost read the whole post.

I agree with everybody that moves like these might be slightly +EV on the low limit SNGs.

I also have a one common situation where betting time effects my playing. It's probably leak though.

I play 4 tables, and since I'm slow , sometimes table shows up where the half of my betting time has already been used. If it's marginal push situation, and especially if I have to push crap, I just usually fold, because I'm afraid that somebody got a read from my long "thinking time".

I'm sure I'm not alone here, but I often use my betting time as a deceptive tool when slowplaying. For example, if I flop a monster in LP and an EP bets, I will let my time run down to make it look like I am struggling with whether to call. A weaker player who does not know me at all will almost always think they can then steal the pot (or even value bet) with a bigger bet on the turn or river. If they make a small bet, I will either reraise the turn or river, depending on the circumstaces. However, a more sophisticated player will not always be fooled by this move, as it is quite common and obvious a lot of the time. Against a weak player, I think this is one of the most effective ways to use betting time deception to your advantage.

[Buccaneer]

When our "sophisticated" player runs down the timer I figure he had a phone call or bathroom break. The next time "sophisticated" player does it I have allready typed in >>OH NO! not the agonized decision bluff again! This is all it takes to stop this time wasting manuver. I try to make all clicks at about 2 seconds. If I want to represent a tough decision then I use 5, this way anyone "sophisticated" will pick it up and those that have no clue will still have no clue.

[mosdef]

The value added, if any, by studying this issue is much, much smaller than the value you would add by spending the time on something else. You are better off evaluating your game and looking at specific hands for faulty reasoning than you are worrying about whether or not your opponent who took 7 seconds to bet instead of 2 seconds is bluffing.

I agree that this whole area adds little value in general, and that usually the person is in the bathroom or touching themself...but the slow call move has doubled me up many times in STTs and MTTs. It's just something that works every so often in the right situation, that's all. And, I also agree not to let the time run all the way down (just longer than usual).