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  #1  
Old 08-19-2004, 04:54 PM
golFUR golFUR is offline
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Default Identifying 2+2ers in the jungle.

I just had a great SnG in which I and three others fought on the bubble from 75/150 all the way to 200/400 before we had a 4th place finisher. When I went out in 3rd we were just a few hands shy of breaking my personal record for longest SnG. It had occurred to me that one or both of the remaining players might be a 2+2er, but if they aren't... well...

How do you find out without sending the rest of the flock on over to see what those two are talking about?
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2004, 05:26 PM
illunious illunious is offline
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Default Re: Identifying 2+2ers in the jungle.

link
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2004, 11:08 AM
Alien Zulu Alien Zulu is offline
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Default Re: Identifying 2+2ers in the jungle.

this being my first time here i'm just trying to figure out what this site has to offer me and what i need to know about it and the players here.

i take it that not many people like to talk about this site at internet tables so that there aren't hoards of people coming here. is that correct?

i just found this site because i picked up the "small stakes..." book yesterday

i've never played for real money online
i'm too nervous about the legitamacy of the sites that offer it. but i have turned my $1000 in play money at pokerroom.com into over $50,000. i know that's probably not much to brag about and that it is very different playing with real money but i am also a consistent winner in card rooms.

i will look around this board some more before asking questions but if someone wants to make me feel more at ease about depositing money online it would be appreciated.

thanks

AZ
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2004, 11:12 AM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Re: Identifying 2+2ers in the jungle.

I'd try, "Hi, are you familiar with the forums at twoplustwo.com?" but I gather you don't find that satisfactory. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously, no offense but trying to keep this site your personal secret strikes me as a little ridiculous. It's not like this site is in any way hidden from the person who wants to do the research to improve their poker game. I gave some fellow microlimit O8 fish this URL. I would be surprised if more than one or two people from that table put in the effort to come over here, become a regular, and improve their game. By that time i fully expect that i've improved my game too so i'll be playing at higher limits. It's just really not a big deal.

In other words, the idea that giving people this URL is going to cause a mass improvement in the level of play is a bigger "monster under the bed" than anything that happens during a hand.
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2004, 11:24 AM
golFUR golFUR is offline
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Default Re: Identifying 2+2ers in the jungle.

I agree to an extent with both the content and tone of your response. I have to disagree in application though. If I post a link to 2+2 at my table, or mention it, only every tenth session. If only 1 in 9 of the other people there bothers to check it, if only every other one of those sticks around... I'm still making it harder on myself.

No, 2+2 is not a secret, it isn't hidden, and anyone serious about improving their game is going to find it. I am not going to make it easier though. It strikes me as a very weak form of table coaching. To chastise someone after a bad hand, to start explaining why they did not have proper odds for that call, to complain or do anything that changes the tone.. these are all by default bad things. Most everyone agrees that you should just mumble 'nh' and take a note. To me it just seems a simple extention of that philosophy that neither do you mention chapter and paragraph of a great book or which specific post over at 2+2 is relevant.

As I noted in the original post, in my opinion these were some very solid players. They would most likely find 2+2 a great help and would be less likely to give it a once over and wander back out. While I'm super happy I am here and I believe this is a fantastic tool for my game, I'm not going to let my joy blind me to the fact that I use this to make money, that I make money only when other people make mistakes, and that anything I can do to keep those mistakes going is keeping my earnings going....

Sure, a mention or two, here and there, is not going to make 2+2 more popular than Google. BUT, no mentions at all is sure going to insure that I, personally, am not contributing to my own loss in earnings.

It seems to me that this kind of attention to detail, this sort of attention to even the smallest of odds... is what is responsible for making a good player great. "Monster under bed"? Perhaps. But monster or no, I'm still hearing things under there.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2004, 11:35 AM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Difference in motivation

I also recognize that my motivations aren't necessarily the same as others on this site. I play poker to 1. have fun 2. get some social interaction 3. maybe learn to make some money. Granted, it's a great thing when you can make money from your hobby, but it's not the primary motivation. I feel a bit like some artisan who does artistic or creative work on the side but keeps their day job. The prospect of cash flow is a nice bonus but not really the motivation. If i wanted to maximize $/hr i'd go to law school, not play poker.

I recognize that different motivations for playing poker will lead to different courses of action. No harm in that, but i'm not going to stop talking about 2+2 to protect somebody's cash flow. For the record i don't go giving unsolicited advice, not because i want to keep it a secret, but because experience teaches me that it has a negative EV in terms of friendly social interactions. In other words, most people get pissed off.

But i know how much others on this forum have already helped me, and i don't see their help as an entitlement. (Not to say that you do. ) So i try to pass the benefit along to those willing to receive it. The other day some guy was asking how to improve his game, and based on my motivations (but not yours) my small act of friendliness is a +ve EV play. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2004, 09:41 PM
golFUR golFUR is offline
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Default Re: Difference in motivation

You are right in that my motivations play a factor. Were I able tomorrow, I would be putting together my rent online. I have no desire to see a single one of my opponents get better. I say opponents as opposed to friends. I make friends online, I was told about 2+2 by a friend, I have told other friends. What is implied is that as a friend I am most likely able to IM them. Given the two mediums through which I can share info online, IM or table chat window...

It seems a small thing to think about while playing. And while at the lower limit tables maybe not so important. But there are people out there putting together rent online...

As to your reference to 'help as entitlement', well, I appreciated the caveat in parenthesis but.. I hope to, if not today than tomorrow, provide as much help as I receive. I imagine anyone able to learn as much as is offered would, over the time it took to learn it, come around to the same view.
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  #8  
Old 08-21-2004, 03:15 AM
Alien Zulu Alien Zulu is offline
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Default Re: Difference in motivation

[ QUOTE ]
I also recognize that my motivations aren't necessarily the same as others on this site. I play poker to 1. have fun 2. get some social interaction 3. maybe learn to make some money.

[/ QUOTE ]

i play poker to win money
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2004, 06:26 AM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Default Re: Difference in motivation

[ QUOTE ]
i play poker to win money

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you. I enjoy winning money too, but i'm not going to treat 2+2 like some kind of secret just to protect your earning potential or mine. That's not my duty.
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2004, 07:21 PM
dogmeat dogmeat is offline
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Default Re: Identifying 2+2ers in the jungle.

If you want to know about a player, just type their name into the chat box with "zoo?" That will usually be ignored, or come back with yes.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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