99 overpair out of position on $100NL 6max

[jacknine]

I got myself into a nasty situation on Stars $100NL 6 max and wonder how I could have avoided it...

Villain has had a lot of comments from other players about playing terribly. From what I've seen, this guy is tricky, cleverly mixing up his play. Looks to me like he knows what he's doing.

me: $120
villain: $260

I'm in MP holding two black nines.
Folded to me, I make the standard 4x BB opening raise.
Dealer calls, all others fold.

Flop comes 3 6 4 rainbow.

Apart from hitting the set, I suppose this is the best flop I could wish for. I bet the pot because I want to take it down right there. Villain calls.

Turn pairs the 4 on the board. Two diamonds.

All of a sudden I don't like the situation anymore. Me out of position with my med.overpair against a tricky villain who smooth called my bets for a descent sized pot. As always I ask myself - how did I get into this mess?

1). should I have merely limped preflop?
2). was my flop bet wrong?

I would lead out again to gain some more information, because he smoothly calls you i dont put him on 10 10 - AA but maybe i am wrong. If he raises you i would fold because probably he is on the premium hands.. But i would definately lead out again for information

1) i would have limped in with 99 because this is a vulnerable hand
2) your flop bet was decent, maybe a bit too agressive i wouldve made that 3/4 pot i think

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

1) i would have limped in with 99 because this is a vulnerable hand


[/ QUOTE ]

That's not a good reason to limp; that's a good reason to raise.

What's Villain's range here? I think 55, 77, 88, 45s and 56s are all possible, as well as a trapping big pair, a flopped set or the nuts. Hero's 99 is still very vulnerable but may well be the best hand. Against typical flop peelers, I fire again. Against someone I suspect must have some semblance of an actual hand, I might check the turn and lead the river, folding to a raise (especially if a straight card hits).

SpaceAce

yes ok , if you look at it that way you are right. Maybe it is better to raise then, ill think it over

However if you check the turn, you are giving the hand away, and he might well be taking advantage of that and forcing you to fold if he puts in a well sized bet

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

However if you check the turn, you are giving the hand away, and he might well be taking advantage of that and forcing you to fold if he puts in a well sized bet

[/ QUOTE ]

It is true that checking exposes you to the possibility of being forced to fold the best hand. However, a "tricky" player is a lot more likely to bluff/semi-bluff with a hand you are beating so you do not have to automatically fold to a bet. Also, betting out on the turn bloats the pot which is not usually a good thing when you have a mediocre hand.

SpaceAce

[jacknine]

[ QUOTE ]

Against someone I suspect must have some semblance of an actual hand, I might check the turn and lead the river, folding to a raise (especially if a straight card hits).


[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to check but this won't tell me anything more about Villain's hand. I'm sure he would see my check as weakness, an indication that my flop action was a lame continuation bet. I fear he would throw a pot sized bet at me, practically forcing me to fold (would anybody go over the top if he did? I wouldn't have the balls).

In fact I bet around half - $15 into a ~$27 pot, and after a little bit of thinking villain minraises to $30.

The situation just got a lot uglier. Now I've managed to get myself into a pretty big pot with this fragile (if not already broken) holding.

Folding this when it's only $15 to call the ~$73 pot just feels wrong (is it??). Calling feels too weak. I feel the urge to push allin here but why would I want to go broke with 99? Since I'm so unsure of where I stand, I think I should just lay it down here, and accept that from a pot-control point of view, played this horribly.

Perhaps a limp-call preflop and check-fold to any bet on a nineless flop would've been the best play after all. Yet it feels so weak...

yes, i can imagine it feels weak, but why would you lose a big pot, when you can save money with this hand. Forgive me if i am wrong, but with 22 - 88 (sometimes) 99 i mostly limp in. I play shorthanded 6 max.

I dont play too long, about 3-4 months now, but i feel for me this is the best way. Because if i dont hit the flop, and someone leads out big i can easily fold, because i havent got a lot of money in the pot.

And if i do hit a set on a not too dangerous board. I can slowplay, and this is also nice vs more than 1 player. If i would raise lets say 99. I would get a set 1:7,5 times. If i come up vs 1 player after my raise. And my set doesnt hit, i almost must semi bluff to win the pot.

This is my way of playing, but i am still learning

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

I would love to check but this won't tell me anything more about Villain's hand. I'm sure he would see my check as weakness, an indication that my flop action was a lame continuation bet. I fear he would throw a pot sized bet at me, practically forcing me to fold (would anybody go over the top if he did? I wouldn't have the balls).

In fact I bet around half - $15 into a ~$27 pot, and after a little bit of thinking villain minraises to $30.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am not being sarcastic when I say this: You bet half the pot, got raised and still had absolutely no idea what path to take. So, you charged yourself a minimum of $15 to end up in exactly the same place you would have been if you had checked. If you are really lost about what to do if you bet and get raised, I don't think you should bet. Also, if you do bet, I would make it more like $20. A 1/2 pot bet is an invitation for a tricky player to raise you.

[ QUOTE ]

Folding this when it's only $15 to call the ~$73 pot just feels wrong (is it??). Calling feels too weak. I feel the urge to push allin here but why would I want to go broke with 99? Since I'm so unsure of where I stand, I think I should just lay it down here, and accept that from a pot-control point of view, played this horribly.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're behind, the best you can hope for is that you have two 4s and two 9s to save you. I don't think folding here is wrong if you believe you are behind,

[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps a limp-call preflop


[/ QUOTE ]

At six-max? I am going to have to say: No. I think the problem street here is the turn, not pre-flop.

SpaceAce

[kitaristi0]

PF is standard. 99 is a raising hand from any position in 6-max.

[jacknine]

[ QUOTE ]

You bet half the pot, got raised and still had absolutely no idea what path to take. So, you charged yourself a minimum of $15 to end up in exactly the same place you would have been if you had checked.


[/ QUOTE ]

I really appreciate this comment - I didn't even think about what to do if I'd get raised.

At the time I didn't think too much of the min.raise, and felt it was an attempt to take the pot away from me.
Looking back, I have to agree with you that my half-pot bet on the turn may have been an invitation to do so.

RESULTS:
I reraised all-in. Villain ran deep into his time bank before calling. He had A6s (Spades) and needless to say rivered an A.

[ QUOTE ]

I think the problem street here is the turn,


[/ QUOTE ]

I see that now. Funny that my motivation for the half-pot bet was to keep the pot small, not wanting to go broke with this hand. A bigger bet would probably not have induced the min.raise. Or even with a check-call on the turn and a check-call/fold on the river would've enabled me to get away from the hand a whole lot cheaper.

And the all-in reraise... Well I guess it was right but for all the wrong reasons. Just looks a bit silly now that I managed to do what I was trying to avoid.

Thanks for your help!

J9.