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#11
12-09-2005, 11:09 AM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
If your aggro is low, raising pf is not the only way to make it higher. Look what you did post flop. You check/called, check/called, and checked. That is what keeps your aggro low. The best way to get it up is to bet and raise.
You have to bet this river, most villians are not value betting like they are supposed to, plus that river was a pretty scary card for him. 
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#12
12-09-2005, 01:04 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
fold pre-flop. That hand is -EV in the long run. On the flop you might have 4.5 outs, but it could be more like 1-1.5 outs to a flush. You need to be thinking about your pot odds and odds to make your hand. Don't play junk.
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#13
12-09-2005, 01:42 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
[ QUOTE ]
*grunch* I wouldn't call Q8s here after only one limper. After 2 limpers I might play it. [/ QUOTE ] Even two limpers isn't enough IMO. We have one straight possibility along with the third nut flush draw. Flopping top pair with this would suck since we're so easily dominated. FWIW Hilger reccomends a full four limpers before calling with this.
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#14
12-09-2005, 03:14 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] *grunch* I wouldn't call Q8s here after only one limper. After 2 limpers I might play it. [/ QUOTE ] Even two limpers isn't enough IMO. We have one straight possibility along with the third nut flush draw. Flopping top pair with this would suck since we're so easily dominated. FWIW Hilger reccomends a full four limpers before calling with this. [/ QUOTE ] position is a good thing I've isolated with this hand, and isolate w/ Q9s OTB frequently .. its not a all the time thing but Q8s, Q9s both have plenty of +EV situations I steal with both here
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#15
12-09-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
[ QUOTE ]
I'm fairly sure it was on this board or SSHE. Of course it probably applied to a better range of hands... [/ QUOTE ] The SSHE loose chart does say to play Q8s in late position, but its definition of loose is 6-8 players on the flop. This squares with the advice you've already been given. If you assume both blinds will come along, you need at least three limpers ahead of you. You'll make it four, and the blinds will make it six. Even then you're on the low end of loose. The value of Q8s is having a lot of limpers to put money in the pot PF, then you hope to hit your flush or straight against a lot of players feeding a big pot. If you miss the flop, then it's not worth much, since many of those same limpers will now already have you beat with overcards. Q8s may also have some steal value as it's slightly better than a random hand, so you might want it heads up or against six opponents, but not against three or four. Someone feel free to jump on this if I completely missed it.
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#16
12-09-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
-grunch-
I fold this preflop. Calling the raise preflop is fine. I also fold the flop here. May be weak tight, but all you have are two BD draws and a single overcard, which could easily not win even if it hit. Turn call is fine. Bet the river, if he has overcards or even an overpair, he's checking through when the 4 to a str8 is on the board.
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#17
12-09-2005, 04:17 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
I'm being too literal with that chart and not learning what hands are marginal with fewer players. Probably time to do some more studying of SSHE. Thanks for the input.
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#18
12-09-2005, 05:56 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
Grunch:
Fold pf. You only have 1 limper in front of you & this hand is too weak to play OOP.
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#19
12-09-2005, 06:09 PM
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Re: Q8s to a raise
[ QUOTE ]
I steal with both here [/ QUOTE ] If I've got good control of MP1, I raise PF. Otherwise, it goes into the muck. OP - The last thing I want to do is give the TAG button (how does 20ish VPIP constitute loose?) odds to enter a pot that I'm in and outplay me with position...
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