AA and betting questions

[KingToad]

I have questions concerning proper betting (if there is such a thing). I was playing at Party, 25/NL .25/50. I was dealt AA in MP. It was checked to me and I raised to $4. Two callers. Flop was J83 rainbow. I bet $8, still 2 callers. Turn was a 4. I go all-in for $14. 2 callers. River was 7. I had AA, 2nd had 55, and 3rd had J7. J7 for goodness sake. After my defeat I even typed J7?. Is this just the bad breaks against someone? I had this type of situation happen 3 other times to wipe me out. Another that really sticks in my crotch: I have T8s I call $1, three callers. Flop is T86. I bet $5 , two drop he raise to $10 (he had been doing this all night, trying to bully). I re-raise to $20, he calls all in to $30. It's H2H with this guy. The turn is Q5. Well he had Q5. Talk about being pissed off. Are these just bad breaks against people who play crap? Like I said that day I dropped $150 on about four hands. What are good bets so someone doesn't call, and how about on the flop and turn, etc. Should I be betting pot, half pot. I seem to loose some hands by not betting enough for them to drop before they catch. Any suggestions.

[RollaJ]

bad players make bad plays...... they will pay you back over time if you are better than them

[ECondreras]

Hey,

I play in the same games you do (I have played with you as well). Here's my philosophy concerning AA. Raising to $4 is too small. You are not going to chase anyone out with that raise. I have seen people raise to $4 with ATo. In the $25NL game, the smallest raise I make with AA is $6. The last time I had AA I raised to $8 and got 2 callers. As it turn out, the flop was ragged and I went all in. One called with AJo. What were his chances of winning?

In any event, I raise big with AA and if someone wants to play as a big dog, then let them. Once in a while I will raise a small amount and then try to trap people if the flop hits me. But this in a very rare play for me, and you have to be able to throw AA away when the situation dictates.

As far as your other hand goes, you got him all in when you had top two pair and he had essentially nothing. Who could fault that play? You will win that play virtually everytime.

In the $25NL Party game, it is sometimes very hard to put someone on a hand. I have learned the hard way plenty of times. My biggest mistake by far is overbetting 2 pair (even top 2). At that limit, people love to limp in with middle pairs and when they flop a set and you 2 pair, you can be in for some trouble. Has happened to me at least 3 times.

I just started playing NL, so take my words with a grain of salt. But since I play in the same games, I wanted to share my observations.

[Nottom]

Why should he be betting more with AA than AT?

$4 is a pretty big raise (8x the BB) if people want to play with my Aces then they can go ahead, but raising to $6 unless the table is super loose and calling everything just seems like a good way to win the blinds. Obviously if you are on the button and everybody has limped to you then go ahead and get in the big raise since there is a pot there to win, but to me it just seems like you are giving away your hands to an observant opponent.

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest mistake by far is overbetting 2 pair (even top 2). At that limit, people love to limp in with middle pairs and when they flop a set and you 2 pair, you can be in for some trouble. Has happened to me at least 3 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is going to be a problem at any limit, especially online where the stacks generally aren't that deep.

[tewall]

You're not thinking about this in the right way. You don't want to get them out of the pot. You want them to call you.

If you bet enough to get them out, you'll just win a small pot. You want to win big pots. To win big pots, you have to risk bad beats, but in the long run you'll win much, much more playing this way.

[KingToad]

Thanks for the insight. Do you play under this name online. I think I have seen you, maybe I just know your name from here. I too have only been playing NL for awhile (about 2 months). I had been doing well, but last week was murder.

[KingToad]

yeah, this seems to be the norm. When someone bets $4 or more you can normally put them on AA or KK. Sometimes, but few, you do have some guy betting this on KQ.

[KingToad]

maybe not, but in the 2 months I've ben playin online I have seen AA get cracked many times when they are played to tight ($2 bet on the flop, like K74, etc...) If you had AA would you just limp? Then just say the flop was Q96, how would you bet, then the turn, and river? What if the board paired, how would this effect your betting?

[ECondreras]

I know that the experienced players want many people in the pot when they have AA, but I am still to "green" to play AA effectively post flop against many opponents. And maybe it's just me, but when I see AA go up against multiple people, it almost always seems to get cracked and put a hurting on the holder.

Doesn't AA stand a much better chance against 1 or 2 players as opposed to 6 or 7 (Assuming an ace never hits the board)?

[Guy McSucker]

Any hand stands a better chance against fewer opponents. Zero opponents gives a very good chance!

The right question to ask is how much money you win with the hand under various circumstances. Aces are happiest all-in before the flop and, I believe, win more money the more people call. Of course they win less often, but the extra money in the pot makes up for it.

If you're not all-in preflop, it gets harder to play correctly the more hands you're against, and more likely that you've been outflopped. Any money you put in once you're outflopped hurts you. (not quite true if you have odds for a redraw, of course)

So if you can't get all-in (or close to it) preflop, you want to narrow the field a bit to reduce mistakes later in the hand.

Guy.